Verdant Audio Bambusa MG 1 Speaker Review

[MZKM]

That was the point of submitting here. This saves me a couple thousand $$$ and text on the site will be altered.

Some info:

Sensitivity: This can be played with, I use 300Hz-3kHz (no reason other than that’s what SoundStage/NRC does), but since the upper treble is emphasized, you can do 50Hz-20kHz and it will be 83dB (If rounding decimals, you can do 24Hz-20kHz). If doing Listening Window, you can get 83dB (rounded) from 36Hz-20kHz

Frequency response: If rounding decimals, you can do +/-3dB from 47Hz-20kHz. Alternatively, if you want to use the Listening Window, you can go down to 42Hz.

If you don’t scrap it, let me know if you have any other parameters you want to check.

As for trying to tweak the crossover, if the cabinets are not pre-cut, could you experiment with closer driver distances?

 

[verdantaudio]

These factors are not direct contributors to THD, which is a function of the mechanical behaviour of the driver.

Having said that, at lower frequencies the enclosure can certainly indirectly affect nonlinear distortion, but that's mostly to do with its effect on voice coil excursion. For example, all else equal, a ported enclosure will produce the same SPL at low frequencies (from the tuning frequency up) as a sealed cabinet, but with less voice coil excursion. This will allow the driver to behave more linearly at a given SPL, and therefore produce less distortion.

But I don't think this was exactly what you had in mind with your question, right?



The short answer is no.. The longer answer is that different woofers require different cabinet types/volumes. Some woofers are designed to perform very well in relatively small sealed enclosures, for example, while others are designed to perform best in large ported enclosures - and everything in between.

But there's no general "most favourable" - each choice is highly driver dependent, and involves different tradeoffs and considerations.



It's definitely used in parts that go into loudspeaker enclosures (waveguides, ports, etc.), and I strongly suspect it happens in the portable/bluetooth speaker world, although I couldn't point to any specific examples.

Damn, look at the THD... Nice, aside from that weird 400Hz ordeal.

Since I'm a speaker noob, does anyone have a clue if enclosure thickness/weight/stability/internal space has a roll in THD that's eventually measured? Also, is it most favorable to have a speaker enclosure with the least amount of internal empty space? Has 3D printing been a thing in enclosure designs yet?

3D printing of enclosures in not a thing yet. Their is one company I see with products on Audiogon that 3D prints their cabinets but it is not a traditional bass reflex speaker. I forget the name of the company.

I initially explored printing cabinets using carbon fiber reinforced thermoplastics and Ultem. Very simply, because the strands of CF are not oriented in one direction, the CF reinforced plastics simply aren’t strong enough. I have a prototype that failed which is why we pivoted to composite panels.

Ultem might work but my COST for unpainted cabinets was $14,600 per pair for speakers at this size. At that price, I will never know if it works though I do know that there are some Ultem based enclosures produced in the aerospace industry.

 

[tuga]

Few notes:

1 - the specs will be completed now that measurements are in assuming I don’t scrap the product, at least temporarily
2 - this uses a 6.5” woofer which proved to be a poor choice as that driver really needs a larger cabinet to get the most out of it.
3 - the emphasized upper frequencies are strictly a result of my taste and tweaks I made to the crossover. There is a single resistor in the crossover that I can adjust to soften that.
4. These have been designed and tested using a 24” stand.

Why didn't you redesign the speaker?
In all honesty it would make sense to treat this as a prototype and make the right choice of woofer for the finalised commercial product.

 

[verdantaudio]

Why didn't you redesign the speaker?
In all honesty it would make sense to treat this as a prototype and make the right choise of woofer for the finalised commercial product.

this technically is the prototype. Note the plate was not etched with logo or serial # and I have yet to sell a pair. This was brought to CAF as “new news”. I expect I will use the smaller driver.

the motivation for keeping the larger driver was poor in terms of audio reproduction. I had a strong desire to use the same cabinet with same CNCd baffle for both the AL 1 and MG 1 products. Keeps inventory down and my CO designer was optimistic this would work. Additionally, the dip at crossover range wasn’t as pronounced in my measurements in room during development.

 

[tuga]

Good bass-mid driver? That bloody thing takes off at 8khz (I had to check as I didn't know the exact model number) -

http://www.seas.no/index.php?option...id=351:e0015-08s-w15cy001&catid=49&Itemid=359

Now, I appreciate the driver isn't being *driven* at 8khz, but I gather from a well respected UK speaker designer with some pedigree, that this resonance can seemingly be acoustically excited at this frequency even thoiugh it's not being 'driven.' Maybe this design isn't, but as soon as I see metal cones these days I run a mile! Far smoother but more boring looking drivers out there I reckon.

Most "hard" cones and domes produce this sort of wild breakup but that doesn't compromise their performance within their optimal operating range as long as it's adequately dealt with by the low-pass filter. SEAS recommends ≤3kHz which might be a bit optimistic.

Here are audioXpress' measurements of the SEAS Froy mk.3 kit.
From the literature: "The crossover network is conventional except for a parallel circuit which supresses the response peak due to the magnesium cone. The crossover frequency is 2.2kHz."
I wouldn't say that it suppreses the breakup completely (there's a blip in the FR plot and a low-level resonance in the CSD plot) but it's close.

 

[Ron Texas]

$5k for a small standmount is ludicrous.

 

[BYRTT]

...After seeing these results, will probably temporarily scrap this product and go back to my crossover designer (I contract that out) to see if we can get a flatter response....

Many thanks post feedback here, technical as is think changing response will not get it up there where nowadays directivity standards have come to, for that some hardware changes is needed so the two tranducers directivity indexes will meet more gently minus a slope plus center to center distance bumb, synthetic examples is in below animations for what i mean, have best research and work down the road

 

[tuga]

$5k for a standmount is ludicrous.

Depends on the performance potential.
These standmounts cost £17k (the Ultima Salon2s cost £23k) but you get a lot for the money:

Drivers: HF 25mm Mid 75mm LF 375mm Super Linear
Amplitude Linearity ±2dB: 60Hz – 17kHz
Frequency Response -6dB: 25Hz & 22kHz
Matched Response: ±0.5dB
Dispersion: ±80° Coherent Horizontal ±10° Coherent Vertical
Sensitivity (sine wave): 91dB @ 1W @ 1m
Max continuous SPL @1m: 117dB SPL
Crossover Frequency: 380Hz & 3.5kHz
Input Connector: Binding Posts/4mm banana plugs
Recommended Power Amplifier: 100 to 1500 Watts
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Cabinet Dimensions(HxWxD): 884 x 498 x 568mm (stands add 200mm to height)
Weight: 67.2kg

 

[ROOSKIE]

$5k for a standmount is ludicrous.

Well, it deff puts this speaker in competition price wise with some pretty substantial products. KEF reference, Revel M126be, ATC SCM19 and dozens of others.
Thing about is that as the manufacturer stated, this is the price required to make a profit and include dealers. Mark up on speakers is 5-10 times from cost to retail.
This is also the cost to support a very small business in a sea of giants. I mean I can buy a nice print at Target for $30, or I can buy a painting from a professional local artist for $1000+. I am not saying speakers are quite the same but you have to factor in the tiny scale and hopefully the passion of the small manufacturer.
I wouldn't buy this set for many reasons, yet hopefully this info can help guide Verdant toward making better gear. While it won't likely be "worth it" in $ alone, if they can excel, they will find buyers who value the small scale.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Many thanks post feedback here, technical as is think changing response will not get it up there where nowadays directivity standards have come to, for that some hardware changes is needed so the two tranducers directivity indexes will meet more gently minus a slope plus center to center distance bumb, synthetic examples is in below animations for what i mean, have best research and work down the road
View attachment 57177
View attachment 57178

Not sure if it is intentional but your EQ'd speaker graphs do not follow the target curve. That is obviously fine but simply curious what your objective is?

 

[Chrise36]

"Speaker Listening Tests
I had my son who is in his twenties with me for this part of the test. Without showing him the measurements I asked his impression. He said "metallic parts of music are exaggerated." That was exactly my impression. What is there is clean mind you, but definitely stands out. And as advertising said, bass does not stand out. I dialed in some bass boost and that made a very positive impression but caused the woofer to bottom out at elevated playback volume. With two speakers (my tests are with one), that may work.

Conclusions
The sound of Bambusa MG 1 seems to be as designed both objectively and subjectively. I have a feeling that in quick listen and for a target market of aging audiophiles, elevated highs may be a good idea. It is not what I like to live with though. What would be nice then is a switch in the back that puts in a resistor in the path of the tweeter to dial down its energy some. Alternative a target curve that brings down the highs may do the trick."

.

Hi Amir is it possible you can upload some of your reference tracks as part of the review so we can have an idea how the speaker sounds? I know it is not the same but i think it is better than reading and trying to describe how a speaker sounds. I hope i am not asking too much..

 

[tuga]

Well, it deff puts this speaker in competition price wise with some pretty substantial products. KEF reference, Revel M126be, ATC SCM19 and dozens of others.
Thing about is that as the manufacturer stated, this is the price required to make a profit and include dealers. Mark up on speakers is 5-10 times from cost to retail.
This is also the cost to support a very small business in a sea of giants. I mean I can buy a nice print at Target for $30, or I can buy a painting from a professional local artist for $1000+. I am not saying speakers are quite the same but you have to factor in the tiny scale and hopefully the passion of the small manufacturer.
I wouldn't buy this set for many reasons, yet hopefully this info can help guide Verdant toward making better gear. While it won't likely be "worth it" in $ alone, if they can excel, they will find buyers who value the small scale.

The question is "o they have enough sex-appeal" to play the big league.

The website put me off, it's too amateur in terms of navigation and not sufficently "lifestyle-pretty" either.
And the speakers don't look particularly expensive nor stylish nor high-tech nor vintage.

 

[hardisj]

That was the point of submitting here. This saves me a couple thousand $$$ and text on the site will be altered.

this technically is the prototype. Note the plate was not etched with logo or serial # and I have yet to sell a pair. This was brought to CAF as “new news”. I expect I will use the smaller driver.

Wow... Maybe I'm off my rocker but since this is the exact same thing I would say to a friend in your shoes here goes...


What you have responded above reeks of you having used Amir's time and resources as part of R&D. I hesitate to explicitly say you did, but it certainly has that appearance with your above quotes. And this kind of testing costs money as you admitted above.

Frankly, I think you should pay Amir because he did the testing for you. In my opinion there is a significant difference between a manufacturer offering up a production unit to help with their visibility vs a manufacturer offering up a "prototype" (your words) under the guise of a production model to help get the kinks worked out, saving you "a couple thousand" (again, your words). Using objective test findings from a 3rd party reviewer and making fixes on future production models is one thing; sending a prototype to avoid spending thousands testing elsewhere is something entirely different. By your own words, you did the latter.

This is a reason why I won't test any products unless they are actually in production and being sold. If I were Amir I'd be pretty aggravated at what has transpired here.

And, finally, I'm not intending to be a jerk, though my reply may read as such. I just frankly am left flabbergasted by your replies and self admittance that you sent a prototype to Amir for testing to save yourself thousands of dollars having it tested elsewhere. Maybe your words weren't typed as you intended but it is indeed what you typed.

 

[BYRTT]

Not sure if it is intentional but your EQ'd speaker graphs do not follow the target curve. That is obviously fine but simply curious what your objective is?

Its intentional because in real world produce the perfect pattern for a speaker is nearly impossible and as can be seen LW was the focus, one could also had massaged on axis or PIR perfect smooth but then LW will get out of its smooth target : )

 

[Billy Budapest]

My guess is that with some rework to the crossover and revision to the enclosure, the distortion at 400 Hz and the excess energy in the treble can be tamed. I’m not sure what can be done about the “directivity dip”—perhaps modification to the baffle? In any event, I think with a “revision 1.1” this could be made into a nice measuring speaker. The tweeter is just too nice to not be taken fully advantage of.

 

[Billy Budapest]

That was the point of submitting here. This saves me a couple thousand $$$ and text on the site will be altered.

Good thinking! Looks like there is a little more spit and polish needed, but the speaker could be a contender. It’s heartening that a manufacturer is paying attention to measurements—to the extent that measurements satisfy the designer’s sound goals for the speaker. Not everyone designs for neutrality—a lot of the big boys do not.

 

[TimVG]

It's a simple matter of physics. A 6,5" midrange coupled to a 1" dome tweeter is bound to have a discontinuity as one moves away from the reference axis. Possibly solutions are using a waveguide to limit the dispersion of the tweeter and match its off-axis behaviour to the midrange, or turn it into a nice 3-way using a 2,5" or 3" midrange.

 

[617]

Wait did this dude seriously send in a prototype to get Amir to measure it as if it was a commercial product? I was wondering why there was no text on the binding post plate.

@verdantaudio What is your measurement setup? ARTA? Clio? Thanks for engaging with the discussion, by the way.

 

[tuga]

Wait did this dude seriously send in a prototype to get Amir to measure it as if it was a commercial product? I was wondering why there was no text on the binding post plate.

@verdantaudio What is your measurement setup? ARTA? Clio? Thanks for engaging with the discussion, by the way.

Apparently it's ARTA (this CSD plot is the equivalent of a >100dB-wide FR plot...eveything looks flat)

https://verdantaudio.com/collections/verdant-audio-speakers/products/nightshade-1-standmount-speaker

 

[laudio]

How big are these? Remind me of the Infinities except do not measure as well.