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Using A Contour Plot for a Polar Plot for Directivity Matching

Trdat

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Just curious when one is looking for a polar plot to match a tweeter with a woofer can the horizontal and vertical contour plot from the Klippel measurements be used as a polar plot to match directivity?

I take the easy way out and opt out of measuring and am a DIY guy who looks for polar plots and a woofers off axis to match directivity but its usually very hard to find either of these so I thought perhaps looking at measurements with countour plots might bridge the gap in finding tweeters with polar plots.
 

fpitas

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If you measure the drivers individually, without a crossover, in the exact baffle and cabinet they will be in? Then yes.
 
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Trdat

Trdat

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Okay so most of the measurments done by Amir are with the crossover and taken as a whole speaker so then the answer would be no?

I understand about the baffle, I just want to understand if your getting the same plot for t etweeter if measured seperately or as a speaker.
 

alex-z

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can the horizontal and vertical contour plot from the Klippel measurements be used as a polar plot to match directivity?

I take the easy way out and opt out of measuring and am a DIY guy who looks for polar plots and a woofers off axis to match directivity but its usually very hard to find either of these so I thought perhaps looking at measurements with countour plots might bridge the gap in finding tweeters with polar plots.

99.9% of Klippel NFS measurements are complete speakers, not individual drivers. Erin has done some individual driver measurements (for DIY kits).



Directivity is impacted by the baffle layout, so these measurements only apply to those specific drivers, in the specific test baffle being used.

There is no "easy way out" if you want to properly design a crossover. Ideally you want the full CEA-2034 aka spinorama for each driver.

 
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Trdat

Trdat

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99.9% of Klippel NFS measurements are complete speakers, not individual drivers. Erin has done some individual driver measurements (for DIY kits).



Directivity is impacted by the baffle layout, so these measurements only apply to those specific drivers, in the specific test baffle being used.

There is no "easy way out" if you want to properly design a crossover. Ideally you want the full CEA-2034 aka spinorama for each driver.

Yes, Erin has but there were vituixcad tranferable if I understood correctly, It would be great to just see the polar plot of the Dayton tweeter for the Overnight Sensation. Unless there is a way to load it in vituixcad and see a polar plot?

I'm fully with you regarding directivity being impacted by baffle layout I usually enjoy DIY with horns and you can often get polar plots for horns and there accompanying CD or some type of simulation with Akabak and the baffle layout is not important with these designs but with general tweeters it does need to be in the baffle.

So essentially, if the company or someone DIY enthusiast has not provided us with a polar plot for the CD + horn and a off axis response for th ewoofer or an example of a tweeter in a baffle such as Erin with the OV there is not much we can do unless someone goes through the difficult motions of measuring then tranfering to a polar plot and posting on a forum.

I actually let Audiolense do all the work for crossovers, I just try and get all the other variables right and matching directivity is not hard you just need the necessary information which is the difficult part to come by.
 

alex-z

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Yes, Erin has but there were vituixcad tranferable if I understood correctly, It would be great to just see the polar plot of the Dayton tweeter for the Overnight Sensation. Unless there is a way to load it in vituixcad and see a polar plot?

I'm fully with you regarding directivity being impacted by baffle layout I usually enjoy DIY with horns and you can often get polar plots for horns and there accompanying CD or some type of simulation with Akabak and the baffle layout is not important with these designs but with general tweeters it does need to be in the baffle.

So essentially, if the company or someone DIY enthusiast has not provided us with a polar plot for the CD + horn and a off axis response for th ewoofer or an example of a tweeter in a baffle such as Erin with the OV there is not much we can do unless someone goes through the difficult motions of measuring then tranfering to a polar plot and posting on a forum.

I actually let Audiolense do all the work for crossovers, I just try and get all the other variables right and matching directivity is not hard you just need the necessary information which is the difficult part to come by.

Yes, there is a zip file for each speaker with the individual data that you can load into VituixCAD. It was discussed on ASR, and some people including myself posted upgraded crossover designs.


Baffle layout is absolutely important for horn loaded designs. The baffle step transition often occurs before the crossover region, and woofers can still experience edge diffraction. Fairly big difference between designing a bookshelf, tower, and in-wall speaker for example, even if they all used the same drivers.

Yes, unless a company provides measurement data without any baffle influence you will have to measure the drivers yourself. It isn't really that difficult or expensive, just time consuming, because depending on the speaker construction you may need up to 72 measurements, for a fully asymmetric 2 way speaker. From my experience, this takes about 2 hours, although you can speed it up with a motorized turntable.

If you want to just "eyeball" the directivity of a speaker, the diffraction sim tool in VituixCAD may help. You can simulate the baffle behaviour for each driver, for example a 150mm woofer and 26mm tweeter, then export that data into the crossover section. Just remember that when using digital correction such as Audiolense, you don't want a flat in-room frequency response. Flat anechoic results in a downward slope when placed in-room, which is what sounds good + natural.
 
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Trdat

Trdat

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Yes, unless a company provides measurement data without any baffle influence you will have to measure the drivers yourself. It isn't really that difficult or expensive, just time consuming, because depending on the speaker construction you may need up to 72 measurements, for a fully asymmetric 2 way speaker. From my experience, this takes about 2 hours, although you can speed it up with a motorized turntable.
It seems tedious and hard work. I will get to it eventually.
If you want to just "eyeball" the directivity of a speaker, the diffraction sim tool in VituixCAD may help. You can simulate the baffle behaviour for each driver, for example a 150mm woofer and 26mm tweeter, then export that data into the crossover section.
That's right Vituixcad is an option to simulate baffle behavior on the off chance one can find polar plots.

Just remember that when using digital correction such as Audiolense, you don't want a flat in-room frequency response. Flat anechoic results in a downward slope when placed in-room, which is what sounds good + natural.
A got a few options of tilted slopes.
 
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