UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review

[thehun]

Lavorgna loved all the products from this company, nuff said!

 

[Blumlein 88]

I need to hire him to write jokes for the end of my reviews.

I gazed into the rippling images as the Ethergen released the heat from doing its magic. My ears could hardly believe what my eyes were hearing as I suffered from synesthesia undoubtedly due to the LSD I'd dropped just prior to starting this review. It was at this point, the panther's head exploded, and in a shining moment of unity with all that was, I knew exactly what made the Ethergen work so well.

 

[Vovgan]

You obviously don't realize that it's reviews like this that bring Amir the most pleasure.

Chief responded already, but for me personally gloating over such a nice, clean kill of a hyped product, done professionally and dare I say in artistic manner, is certainly one of the lures to coming back to this site!

And judging by the record number of views and comments in this thread in the first 24 hours after publication I'm clearly not alone! "the People ... anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses".

 

[firedog]

Wow. I have been discussing this elsewhere. It's utterly incredible the ability of some to deny factual evidence. It's utterly mind boggling.

You can politely and patiently explain the reasons, the cause and effect (or lack of) and then they turn round and say "but you haven't heard it". Followed by being offensive.

Why is it that some are incapable of vaguely critical thought?

You really can't get much more simple than pulling the ethernet lead out with the music continuing perfectly to demonstrate just how divorced the switch is from what comes out the dac. Yet some will point blank deny this is any kind of evidence.

Is this part of the seemingly wider social issue of science denial? Is it part of the same human aspect that drives religous faith? Does this simply go generally hand in hand with a personality that tends to be an audiophile - someone that will have a tendancy to obsess over improvements in the system instead of actually listening to music?

I am honestly confounded by what I see. It's borderline irrational behaviour. People will admit they have no knowledge or competence in an area but will still be adamant that their opinion should be counted above those that do and the evidence they present.

The uncharitable part of me says well if they really are that stupid then let them be taken advantage of, or even wonders what worthless Audiophile trinket I could release to take their money.

I think it is pretty simple. Many people trust their senses, and if they "hear" something, that's all that counts. Some of them are aware that they are fooling themselves, but don't care - "if I think it sounds better, then it does"; others just can't accept that their ears can fool them. Doesn't matter how you explain it to them - they aren't being fooled.

 

[firedog]

That sounds like what you would do, not what I do. I can't afford to have a beef with anyone. Readers of the site expect to see objective/reliable data from me and that is what I do. To wit, I have praised Schiit products when they perform and you could have said the same thing about them.

Now, all else is not equal. Alex and John are super active on social media so are flag bearer of these devices. For that reason, providing measurement data for their devices carries more weight and usefulness for the general community as opposed to testing more obscure products without gorilla marketing behind them.

And because of popularity of UpTone devices, probability of their devices getting to me is higher than others.

All this said, as others have mentioned, I test what comes to me. This device did and so here we are. The others have not.

SOtM makes similar devices and are probably more popular, especially worldwide. It would be interesting to review some of theirs. At least then you couldn't be accused of being on a vendetta against Uptone.

 

[firedog]

They are probably his best advertiser. Still, the grovelling is rather over the top on this one.

I think it has zero to with advertising. AS simply is a forum home for lots of Uptone and Sonore customers - people who by every new product they make. So you are going to have very positive reviews there. People like the products and are sure the devices improve system SQ.

 

[firedog]

You can start by the fact that they have a paid subforum on AS and worse, with moderator rights to delete posts, move them, etc. That is the modern way small companies scale these days. Use what looks like a neutral third-party forum to advocate your bits, hope most people don't look behind the curtain as they do google searches and land on one these stories, product praises, etc.

Yes, they have a paid forum, but when you want to criticize their products you simply start a thread there that is outside their paid forum. Chris has no problem with that and freely lets people post critical remarks about his advertisers.

 

[firedog]

I can't find it, though I'm sure this has been covered somewhere on the forum by a legal expert. Where do companies like this stand when it comes to advertising laws?. Has there ever been any legal action taken against such a company? They're making factual claims that are provably false, in order to entice consumers to buy their products.

As it stands the word audiophile is so synonymous with "gullible moron" that when my brother in law (pro audio sales) saw my kit he said "oh, so you're an audiophile" and I was forced to answer "yes, but I don't believe in magic".

I genuinely don't understand why they're allowed to continue to operate in this way. I wish there were a landmark case against a woo pedlar that put the audio industry in the spotlight, and rather than the occasional "oh, aren't they eccentric" article appearing we'd see news of prosecutions instead. In the UK at least, when a "psychic" or similar peddles their wares there has to be a disclaimer essentially stating that they have no scientific proof for their claims. It doesn't stop some believers using their services, but it still may be a blow to snake oil sellers' sales to have to display that next to all of their wild claims. A high profile case to get the ball rolling would be lovely, I'll pop it on my list for Santa.

No, they are saying it "sounds better". Not really a falsifiable claim in the legal sense. They have thousands of customers who will say it does.

 

[mansr]

I think it has zero to with advertising. AS simply is a forum home for lots of Uptone and Sonore customers - people who by every new product they make. So you are going to have very positive reviews there. People like the products and are sure the devices improve system SQ.

I've never before seen Chris so fervently defend anyone against deserved criticism. For example, he has no problem at all with people tearing into AudioQuest. He even ran my rather unflattering teardown of the Dragonfly on the front page. They advertise on the site, but they do not have a paid subforum. Seeing as iFi recently pulled their section, it's understandable if Chris pulls out all the stops to keep the Uptone happy, but it's still not a particularly good look.

 

[firedog]

I've never before seen Chris so fervently defend anyone against deserved criticism. For example, he has no problem at all with people tearing into AudioQuest. He even ran my rather unflattering teardown of the Dragonfly on the front page. They advertise on the site, but they do not have a paid subforum. Seeing as iFi recently pulled their section, it's understandable if Chris pulls out all the stops to keep the Uptone happy, but it's still not a particularly good look.

I wouldn't classify his response as "fervent". He does have some problem with this site and the measurements, which he doesn't consider wholly reliable - at least in some instances in the past - according to what he wrote. He responded more in the sense of "the ASR measurements alone aren't good enough evidence" (my paraphrase) ER.

 

[pkane]

I wouldn't classify his response as "fervent". He does have some problem with this site and the measurements, which he doesn't consider wholly reliable - at least in some instances in the past - according to what he wrote. He responded more in the sense of "the ASR measurements alone aren't good enough evidence" (my paraphrase) ER.

I would, and agree with Mans — it really seemed strange and out of character. Chris was out of line with veiled and not so veiled accusations against Amir, as well as unsubstantiated claims about testing practices and criticisms of this specific test without understanding first principles. It really seemed personal to me.

 

[solderdude]

No, they are saying it "sounds better". Not really a falsifiable claim in the legal sense. They have thousands of customers who will say it does.

Are those thousands of customers human ?
And is their perception infallible or superior to that of others ?

 

[digicidal]

Are those thousands of customers human ?
And is their perception infallible or superior to that of others ?

Since they're human their perceptions are definitely far from infallible, and the fact that they are Uptone customers demonstrates both fallibility (and gullibility) and if anything demonstrates poorer than average perception... unless self-deception counts as superior perception in some way?

 

[FrantzM]

The last few posts seem to be about the Computer Lifestyle website, I believe they are about issues faced by the commodification of hardware end even software in digital audio reproduction. This could be extended to amplification as well.
Let's look at the situation:

• A $9 Apple dongle is transparent and capable of playing some headphones to substantial SPL. This dongle can be used as preamplifier to most >$10K amplifiers without much fuss. If the presence of the dongle is removed, the most fervent audiophiles shall be unable to distinguish the Apple dongle from a well designed $5000 DAC/preamplifier. Few here will dispute this.
• A pair of Hypex NC400, assembled by a knowledgeable but not expert DIYer, shall sound similarly transparent. In term of performances, most of those module-based amplifiers from Nord and similar outfits surpass many of the expensive behemoth favored by subjectivist audiophiles and the audiophile press, at a fraction of the price, often < 1/25th (!!) of the price.

What is there left then, to sell at ever inflated prices? What is there to sustain a website? A lifestyle? "Anything makes a difference" to the rescue!!! . Science be damned!! If isolating a turntable works, why not the same for a CD player? It has a platter that also "turns"? Until recently, so did Hard Drives, they have a platter and they vibrate .. And noise? We know noise is everywhere? So? The solution is to use FUD. It is at work in all these sites and even at our level, it's never eliminated. Let's see: 80 dB SINAD is good enough? For my budget, I'll make sure my gears do at least 100 dB. The most important word here is budget because of the commodification of digital, we know that we can find components with the above 100 dB SINAD between $200 and $100,000 . Yes! we do! As an exemple I suppose products from dCS are well engineered. Their TOL Vivaldi Stack , 3 shiny boxes : one for the DAC ,another for the "something " and another for the "clock". retails for about $100,000. I doubt it measure any better than a Khadas Tone Board + JDS Labs Atom. It might even measure worse. Let's extend the FUD: One can actually measure Ethernet switches and some do better than others in measurements.. So why not extend the concept to Audio? Any measurable parameters to Audio... Why not? And it has worked for many years. Yet Subjectivists don't believe in measurements. they don't measure. They listen and they hear better than the best microphones and measuring instruments. And this Himalaya of BS has made money to many , has sustained an industry, has sustained many lives. The contradiction is glaring but we live already in a world full of contradictions.

What is being done at ASR is changing the industry, slowly but for the better. Our next steps should be the transducers: speakers, headphones.

 

[Jinjuku]

I wouldn't classify his response as "fervent". He does have some problem with this site and the measurements, which he doesn't consider wholly reliable - at least in some instances in the past - according to what he wrote. He responded more in the sense of "the ASR measurements alone aren't good enough evidence" (my paraphrase) ER.

I think two things went on in that closed thread:

1. UpTone is a pretty major sponsor

2. Chris has a beef with Amir. Whether it's legitimate or a perception it is what it is. I don't know if Digital Madrona is still a reseller for Berkeley but Chris's complaint is that no currently sold Berkeley product has been benched and Chris is under the impression that Amir is good friends with the Ownership and should be able to procure a unit for testing quite easily.

Point 2 could put him in a conundrum. Since he sees Amirs measurements as suspect then what does it matter if Amir benches a production Berkeley product? The data can't be trusted. So why even go there?

 

[Jinjuku]

I wouldn't classify his response as "fervent". He does have some problem with this site and the measurements, which he doesn't consider wholly reliable - at least in some instances in the past - according to what he wrote. He responded more in the sense of "the ASR measurements alone aren't good enough evidence" (my paraphrase) ER.

I would have to disagree. When I mentioned that the Schiit Modi 2 was tested Chris's response was "OMG testing a USB DAC with an Ethernet Switch"

What had happened at this point, and it's my conjecture, is that back channel Chris is getting some serious heat, the narrative needs to be gain control of, and without doing any research he claps back at me with that response.

When I point out that UpTone's own verbiage on their product page specifically mentions computer to dac I get a terse: Didn't see that and 'interesting'. Highly out of character.

On one hand I shot a 3 part video series on Vlan's, Inter-Vlan Routing, Switch Virtual Interface, Vlan Tagging over ISL using 802.1q, and finally some basic routing and the members that wanted to know more loved it. Then on the other hand, knowing what I know about networking, I'm highly skeptical of audiophile ethernet hardware and speak about that and it's a problem.

 

[mvil]

What if I stream wireless

You need a WifiREGEN.... soon hitting the market!

It will clean all the waves!

 

[pozz]

FYI, Amir did a test of a similar (sort of) device, a USB bridge sold by Berkeley, including a teardown and explanation: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...performance-pc-server-interfaces-async-usb.8/

 

[Martin]

What if I stream wireless

You need a WifiREGEN.... soon hitting the market!

It will clean all the waves!

You're in luck!

In a typical home environment WiFi signals are scattered by impurities in the air. When streaming audio this scattering causes instruments to sound dingy or muted resulting in a diffuse, unfocused soundstage. The new WiFiPURE air purifier (patent pending) removes these impurities resulting in a more direct, unencumbered path for WiFi signals to flow through the home. By removing the signal scattering impurities, instruments sound cleaner and more open which in turn projects a sharp, focused soundstage. “The result was so profound that my wife fixing dinner in the other room asked if I had procured a new piece of audio gear. Amazing!” For particularly dirty air we also recommend the WiFiSCRUB spray (patent pending) which clumps the impurities together to aid the WiFiPURE to more effectively remove them.

Coming soon:

WiFiPURE only $1,299 for up to 500 sq ft

$1,899 for up to 1,000 sq ft

$2,499 for up to 2,000 sq ft

WiFiSCRUB only $29.99 per 8oz. bottle.


Martin

 

[Nathan Raymond]

Wow. I have been discussing this elsewhere. It's utterly incredible the ability of some to deny factual evidence. It's utterly mind boggling.

You can politely and patiently explain the reasons, the cause and effect (or lack of) and then they turn round and say "but you haven't heard it". Followed by being offensive.

Why is it that some are incapable of vaguely critical thought?

You really can't get much more simple than pulling the ethernet lead out with the music continuing perfectly to demonstrate just how divorced the switch is from what comes out the dac. Yet some will point blank deny this is any kind of evidence.

Is this part of the seemingly wider social issue of science denial? Is it part of the same human aspect that drives religous faith? Does this simply go generally hand in hand with a personality that tends to be an audiophile - someone that will have a tendancy to obsess over improvements in the system instead of actually listening to music?

I am honestly confounded by what I see. It's borderline irrational behaviour. People will admit they have no knowledge or competence in an area but will still be adamant that their opinion should be counted above those that do and the evidence they present.

The uncharitable part of me says well if they really are that stupid then let them be taken advantage of, or even wonders what worthless Audiophile trinket I could release to take their money.

Without education/training/experience there is nothing in human nature to incline people to be particularly scientific or rational, so most people aren't. Most people operate on an internal algorithm of, "what is the minimum amount of effort needed to achive X?" and if their task X is narrow in focus or limited in time scope (i.e. my subconscious would like to make my conscious feel better about a purchase I'm going to make or a purchase I have made so I will use the easiest/most readily at hand rationale I can to appease my anxiety) they will operate that way. Also, keep in mind that "believing" in one's senses over everything else feeds the ego in a very particular way. There's a lot of people who would feel worse emotionally if they realized the real-world limitations of their own senses and mind (and how advertising and lots of other things affect their behavior and choices in ways they probably don't realize unless they are aware of those limitations). That can be a pretty significant shift in worldview to realize these limitations of yourself and others, a worldview that can make some people uneasy if they've spent a lot of their life going around thinking things have a lot more certainty than they really do. Being scientific and rational in many situations can be more work than being irrational (being rational/scientific has a big payoff in the long term though, so if you have a good vision toward the future you can realize that the effort in the short term will save you effort or gain you things in the long run that would be impossible if you're irrational, but you do need to have that vision/value).

No question that helping people to realize the value of science and rationality would help human society (and the planet, our home) as a whole in the long term. Anything we can do in that regard is good. The larger issues of science, rationality, and skepticism in all areas of life are tackled well in a lot of other places like the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast and website:

https://www.theskepticsguide.org/