UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review

[amirm]

So if I were in the market for a DAC (or any component I guess), then I should just buy the one that measures best? This is a serious question. Thanks

I don't think it is a serious question Andre given your tone. That aside and for benefit others reading these posts, if you can perform a controlled test, then by all means use that to choose your DAC. If you are unable to do that, then measurements are a great indicator of engineering excellence. There are a ton of unqualified people in audio building all kinds of poorly engineered products. And often charge more for it. Measurements and reviews here will let you see that and avoid the pitfalls.

Now, there is a point where distortion and noise get to be below threshold of hearing even if you play at exceedingly loud level of 120 dBSPL. To the extent you purchase such a product, you are guaranteed to have transparency to the source. On these products, you absolutely can use measurements as a purchase criteria as the outcome is proven through pyschoacoustic testing. Which is a fancy way of saying the criteria is qualified based on listening tests.

The absolute worst thing you can do is buying based on what you read from random people who don't know the audio science online or in videos. Or performing faulty listening tests. If you are going to do this, just close your eye and buy whatever. And next time you get sick, use the same sources of information for what to take for it, rather than your doctor.

 

[dincus]

It is new to me. The digital side of things, at least. I have been auditioning stuff. I do hear differences with different digital cables and servers that I have tried. Not looking for most expensive or anything like that - just trying out stuff that other people seem to like. The most eye-opening was Lush USB cable. Sounds like no other USB cable I tried. It seems in that case that shielding arrangements makes a big difference in what you hear out of your DAC. And it was pretty clear to me that a purpose-built music server with a good linear PSU sounded better streaming files than my iMac. A very different sound from those sources. So as I get deeper into picking some digital playback components, I'm trying to understand where/how to spot value and things that do make a real difference. Thanks

 

[dincus]

Don't project your emotions on me. I don't care about Alex or anyone else. I judge every piece of gear on its merit. And here, audiophiles are sold that "EMI" is bad. So I am commenting that this device has not been measured to a) pass regulatory certification meant to limit such emitted/conducted noise and b) could very well be worse than the switch existing audiophile is using. You get this, right? It is not hard.

Dude. Calling out his business as illegal is a step beyond what I thought I was learning from you, that's all. I'm not projecting anything. Tone is pretty apparent. Anyway - that's not why I joined this forum. I am trying to understand why some things sound better than others. And it was a serious question about measurements. But I'm starting to feel I may be in the wrong place to ask newbie questions. Seems to me, based on what I've been reading here that the etherREGEN should make no difference in the sound coming out of my DAC. I'm just trying to ascertain if that is what you are saying and if so, then I really should not trust my ears to understand if I like the sound of a product. I should go by the measurements. Right? I guess what I'm struggling with is if I think something sounds good or better but it doesn't measure good or better, what am I hearing? These are important financial questions to me as I contemplate purchases. Like you say, I don't want to wake up in months and realize I was delusional in terms of what i was hearing.

 

[restorer-john]

The day they handed common sense Alex must have been absent.

@amirm I do think you are going a bit overboard with personal attacks in this public forum which supposedly aspires to a better standard. If a member said that about you, they would likely get their marching orders or at least a holiday from posting, wouldn't they?

I think the silly-season end of year pressures are getting to everyone and the pile of products for review clearly never ends. I can see how products that appear to do nothing useful are really a waste of your reviewing time and dealing with the subsequent fallout is no fun.

Take a break, suck down some beers and play some music.

 

[amirm]

The most eye-opening was Lush USB cable. Sounds like no other USB cable I tried. It seems in that case that shielding arrangements makes a big difference in what you hear out of your DAC.

Not really. We don't know what you hear. We know what you thought you heard because you used all of your senses including what you were testing. You understand that bad data is always bad data, right? It doesn't become good because you are different than every other human.

 

[Mnyb]

So they are saying after spending $640 on this box, you still need to run an optical path to it for "better sound?" On what basis and does Alex agree?

Never seen Uptone claiming this , but its part of the delusion the audiophiles going for this may very well already have a multimode fibre to their hifi room so then they can ditch thier normal switch with sfp input and only have one device.

Only one device ? Why not build an audiophile sfp/Ethernet converter to or use , or wait two regens with a short patch

 

[restorer-john]

I'm just trying to ascertain if that is what you are saying and if so, then I really should not trust my ears to understand if I like the sound of a product.

Of course you should trust your ears. But arm your mind with objective facts about the device before employing the fallible ears and brain as they have an agenda of their own and can take us for a ride. We've all been there at one stage, and as you say, it can get expensive.

 

[amirm]

I can see how products that appear to do nothing useful are really a waste of your reviewing time and dealing with the subsequent fallout is no fun.

They are very useful John. And fun to test actually. I like a challenge to find even the smallest differences. Here, I couldn't find such because Ethernet is so isolated from the system. With other UpTone products, I have found differences but sadly for them, they made things worse, not better. That could have been the outcome here (or the opposite). Unless we test, we won't know.

I have had to post a lot about this product before I got to test it anyway. It is a popular topic for the membership. See this thread going back to March of 2018! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-upcoming-uptone-audiophile-data-switch.2515/

 

[amirm]

Never seen Uptone claiming this , but its part of the delusion the audiophiles going for this may very well already have a multimode fibre to their hifi room so then they can ditch thier normal switch with sfp input and only have one device.

I agree it is another audiophile mythology. I can build a fiber connection and test. I just don't see it relevant to this device.

 

[restorer-john]

They are very useful John. And fun to test actually. I like a challenge to find even the smallest differences. Here, I couldn't find such because Ethernet is so isolated from the system.

Fair enough. If you reckon it's fun, go for it. It just seems like you're doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Me, I'd pull the plug on expensive tweak-boxes altogether and test more real gear.

 

[kschmit2]

The CE certification is administered by the manufacturer. There is no third party involved. Its validity is only checked if there's probable cause. Basically a useless certification. Or so I've been told...

at least the GS mark is governed by the Product Safety Act in Germany, and following the link on the sticker to www.tuv.com an entering the provided ID into the Certipedia field on that site leads to the certification data for the power supply: https://www.certipedia.com/quality_marks/1419040584?locale=en
if you then follow the link to show certificate data, you get: https://www.certipedia.com/certificates/50360570?locale=en which has 2 pages.

 

[amirm]

Dude. Calling out his business as illegal is a step beyond what I thought I was learning from you, that's all.

I said nothing about his business being illegal. I don't know his business. What I do know is that a product is sent to us that lacks regulatory certification. Someone asked me to explain more and I did. That was that. Then Alex chimes in with that answer as if to imply that since the power supply was certified, somehow the device would be too. Can't leave such misleading answers be out there. He needs to get his products tested before selling them. If that is too expensive or too much hassle, he should not be in hardware business. John knows the requirements here. They should not be so willing to ignore the requirements in this and other countries to sell products.

You certainly not going to shame me into not covering this point. I paid my dues in managing hardware products that had huge backlog of orders yet we could not ship them until we passed these tests. The law is the law and is not there for you to play games with as an argument Andre.

 

[dincus]

Not really. We don't know what you hear. We know what you thought you heard because you used all of your senses including what you were testing. You understand that bad data is always bad data, right? It doesn't become good because you are different than every other human.

Okay but I'm still confused. When you change the jumpers on the LUSH2 cable the sounds changes. There are myriad configurations of jumpers leading to very different sounds. This is not about what I think I hear based on some preconceived notion of what I should hear because I have never heard most of the combinations before. But there is no doubt they each produce a different sound. So what is that? You should get your hands on one and give a listen.I know you will hear the differences. Of course how we would describe those differences and whether we liked one more than the other would be entirely subjective and unrepeatable. But the presence of the difference remains undeniable.
Anyway - I am willing to follow your lead with the etherREGEN - which I should be getting soon - and try to do some blind testing - just to see if it's as hard as you say. If it is then I think it would have to be returned. Then that testing would corroborate your measurements. Still... if it doesn't... then maybe there's other types of measurements that ultimately need to be made... I have to imagine the science of acoustics marches on...

 

[March Audio]

I'm just trying to ascertain if that is what you are saying and if so, then I really should not trust my ears to understand if I like the sound of a product.
.

Its actually quite the opposite. You really should trust your ears. The problem is your brain gets influenced by other factors. The brand, the price, what the salesman told you, what the reviewer said and of course your expectation bias. Its not delusional, everyone suffers from this. You simply cant be objective if you have all of this other information. Thats the whole point of blind testing, to take those influences away.

In a very simplistic example, if you have 2 dacs side by side that in reality sound the same, but one is a well known high cost product in a nice case and the other is an unknown cheap product, you are almost guaranteed to think the expensive one is better. People are terribly fickle.

So if you had tested your HiFi sever and USB cables under controlled conditions, ie you didnt know what or which item was playing, I guarantee you would not be able to reliably and consistently tell them from any other USB cable or PC. This is because it will be ONLY your ears guiding your conclusion.

 

[Thomas savage]

Andre Marc with these multiple accounts you are really spoiling us.

@dincus , Andre what more fake troll accounts can we look forward to?

I worry about you , is there someone in your life that can help you ?

 

[restorer-john]

Anyway - I am willing to follow your lead with the etherREGEN - which I should be getting soon - and try to do some blind testing

That's a good start.

Try to make those tests as "blind" as you can. Get someone to help so you don't know what is changed/connected or left the same. Be honest with yourself and don't be afraid to admit if you can't hear any difference. All these manufacturers will generally happily take back something if you don't like/want/need it and it's not a failure on your part if genuine differences are inaudible or non-existent to you.

And if anyone, ever tells you "your system isn't resolving enough to hear the difference" punch them in the mouth (oops, I don't condone violence) run from the room.

 

[Wombat]

https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/guides/equipment-marketing-violations

I'm in Canada, I'm not sure if I can credibly file a complaint.

Also, filing a complaint because they failed to obtain certification isn't exactly classy.

CE and FCC are not a legal requirement in Canada.

 

[March Audio]

OMG I have just looked up the Lush 2 USB cable.

Pure comedy

"now with John Swenson Shielding"

https://stordiau.com/products/lush-2-usb-audio-cable

I bet its not even 90 ohms.

 

[restorer-john]

OMG I have just looked up the Lush 2 USB cable.

Pure comedy

You should offer it as an upgrade option for your DAC.

 

[March Audio]

Andre Marc with these multiple accounts you are really spoiling us.

@dincus , Andre what more fake troll accounts can we look forward to?

I worry about you , is there someone in your life that can help you ?

I see. Is he really that sad?