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Turntables - help me understand the appeal?

dualazmak

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Looks almost "all" of the opinions and issues have been told and discussed, I assume.

Just at least in my case...

I very recently revived my gem/treasure TT DENON DP-57L + DENON DL-301MkII MC in my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully-time-aligned (0.1 msec precision) fully-active stereo audio setup; please refer to here and here on my project thread.

What were/are my motivations?

1. Nostalgic aestheticity of TT (ref. photos here and here).
2. Naive nostalgia for "the ceremony" of vinyl listening.
3. My audio-DIY-ish interests in "implementation of real-time on-the-fly listening to vinyl" in DSP-based multi-channel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio setup which has safe and flexible on-the-fly relative gain (tone) control functionality.
4. My naive interest and curiosity for comparative listening to vinyl vs. its CD release in my audio setup (ref. here, here and here), only for a few (less than ten) vinyl discs; especially recently released well QC-ed thick heavy (188 gram!) 45 RPM vinyl of jazz piano trio music vs. its CD release (ref. here).

Since I have already accomplished (almost) all of the above 1. through 4., I assume I will seldom listen to vinyl (maybe once in two months, or less) even though the TT should remain in my multichannel audio rig because of 1. and 2.

And, you would please note that I have already "digitized" all of my around 300 old LPs into 192 kHz (or 96 kHz, 44.1 kHz) AIFF format and have taken the digitized LP tracks into my digital music library (ref. here and here).

BTW, some of my audio/music enthu friends, including "the" jazz fanatic gentleman (ref. here and here), may bring his/her favorite vinyl records to my listening room for our vinyl ceremony and listening enjoyment using my latest DSP-based multichannel audio setup (ref. here) having TT in it.

I essentially agree with @Sal1950's stance and points on this topic. ;)
 
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MattHooper

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Looks almost "all" of the opinions and issues have been told and discussed, I assume.

Just at least in my case...

I very recently revived my gem/treasure TT DENON DP-57L + DENON DL-301MkII MC in my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully-time-aligned (0.1 msec precision) fully-active stereo audio setup; please refer to here and here on my project thread.

What were/are my motivations?

1. Nostalgic aestheticity of TT (ref. photos here and here).
2. Naive nostalgia for "the ceremony" of vinyl listening.
3. My audio-DIY-ish interests in "implementation of real-time on-the-fly listening to vinyl" in DSP-based multi-channel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio setup which has safe and flexible on-the-fly relative gain (tone) control functionality.
4. My naive interest and curiosity for comparative listening to vinyl vs. its CD release in my audio setup (ref. here, here and here), only for a few (less than ten) vinyl disks; especially recently released well QC-ed thick heavy (188 gram!) 45 RPM vinyl of jazz piano trio music vs. its CD release (ref. here).

Since I have already accomplished (almost) all of the above 1. through 4., I assume I will seldom listen to vinyl (maybe once in two months, or less) even though the TT should remain in my multichannel audio rig because of 1. and 2.

And, you would please note that I have already "digitized" all of my around 300 old LPs into 192 kHz (or 96 kHz, 44.1 kHz) AIFF format and have taken the digitized LP tracks into my digital music library (ref. here and here).

BTW, some of my audio/music enthu friends, including "the" jazz fanatic gentleman (ref. here and here), may bring his/her favorite vinyl records to my listening room for our vinyl ceremony and listening enjoyment using my latest DSP-based multichannel audio setup (ref. here) having TT in it.

I essentially agree with @Sal1950's stance and points on this topic. ;)

Whoah...looking through those links.... I nominate you as Most Hardcore Dude On ASR!

My condolences to your poor digitized, discarded LPs... ;)
:cool:
 

dualazmak

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Whoah...looking through those links.... I nominate you as Most Hardcore Dude On ASR!

My condolences to your poor digitized, discarded LPs... ;)
:cool:

Thank you for your kind attention on my multichannel audio project.

BTW, the already digitized vinyl LPs are not yet discarded! __They are still sitting on my shelves upstairs in perfect conditions.
Only if needed, of course I can bring any of them onto my revived TT.:)

Edit: Please find here (on the project thread) and here (remote independent thread post) the Hyperlink Index of my project thread and some of my related posts in remote threads.
 
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Leporello

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It's been said before, but this experience is very, very common in the vinyl-oriented sites/discussion forums:

Listening to records changed the way I listen to music​


https://www.reddit.com/r/vinyl/comments/1361clo
But of course. They read about it on the Internet, then they experience the things you are supposed to experience with vinyl. Then they get to signal the world about their deeper and more profound connection with music. Most of us have been guilty of this at some phase of our lives.
 
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MattHooper

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But of course. They read about it on the Internet, then they experience the things you are supposed to experience with vinyl. Then they get to signal the world about their deeper and more profound connection with music.

And you get to signal to the world that you are above all that. Convenient how pop psychology works out that way ;)
 

Sal1950

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The 4% edict was handed to engineers by management. And my Fleetwood Mac
Rumours 5.1 AudioDisc is highly over-compressed.
??? Haven't we been down that road before?
Maybe you ripped the wrong file from the DVD.
You need the "Advance Resolution Multich file"
Which has a
Official DR value: DR13


Booklet.jpg
 

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anmpr1

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Linked is an interview with Bill Newman, one of the few techs still refurbing classic Duals. A low key discussion, regarding restoration. For anyone interested in Duals from the late 60s through late '70s, it's probably worth a view.

I mostly agree with his opinions, especially about the original company's lowering of build quality after the 701 model. I disagree with his comment about 'stacking' records, when he implies that stacking will cause record damage, which I never found to be the case. It can certainly cause other problems, such as with VTA (always hit or miss with old changers), speed issues, possibly records dropping on the tonearm, and so forth, but I've never suffered record damaged due to stacking per se. FWIW, the Dual stacking system at the spindle was never as positive as the Garrard/BIC two point system.

He also doesn't talk about tonearm alignment for lateral distortion, but again with the old changers that was always hit or miss. On the 721, geometry was pretty spot on with the Lofgren values--a little twisting was possible with the detachable headshell.

FYI

 

levimax

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The original Rumours LP and Target CD sound great. Much better than the later compressed and EQ'd remasters (the first CD remaster happened right away unfortunately) including the "Hi-res" remasters. Can't comment on the MC versions.
 

Sal1950

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Not sure which I'm responding to, 4% clipping or Rumours overcompressed, which I didn't
rip," just played the DVD-A over a high quality 5.1 system.
If you "just played it" how do you know it's highly compressed?
Please provide the evidence.
I have already posted the evidence of the excellent DR13 measurement of the
Advanced Res DVD-A file on that disc.
Maybe your listening to the wrong track?
 

MattHooper

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The original Rumours LP and Target CD sound great. Much better than the later compressed and EQ'd remasters (the first CD remaster happened right away unfortunately) including the "Hi-res" remasters. Can't comment on the MC versions.

I was wondering about Rumours - which version to purchase.

I bought a copy of Rumours on LP several years ago at a local record store. It was a 2009 re-issue and I was disapointed. It sounded sort of dull and muffled IIRC.
 

levimax

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I was wondering about Rumours - which version to purchase.

I bought a copy of Rumours on LP several years ago at a local record store. It was a 2009 re-issue and I was disapointed. It sounded sort of dull and muffled IIRC.
Get an original WB "Palm Label" first pressing. They pressed millions with several different mastering engineers but from what I have read and heard they are all good. The Millennials have bid them up a little but you should not have a problem finding a good NM copy. I have been looking for an alleged "Robert Ludwig" mastering for years but have never seen one and don't know if they really exist or not.
 

levimax

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I was wondering about Rumours - which version to purchase.

I bought a copy of Rumours on LP several years ago at a local record store. It was a 2009 re-issue and I was disapointed. It sounded sort of dull and muffled IIRC.
I have been looking for an original first pressing of Aerosmith's debut for years and this weekend while visiting my favorite record store, which was packed with people of all ages, I came across one in great condition and it was $14 which seemed reasonable to me. I have a fancy Hi-res version of this (loud and compressed) as well as the original CD (which sounds very similar the LP). Since the other members of my house hold were out of town I got to listen to it as intended, which is loud, complete with surface roar and pre / post echo between songs. While not a sonic master piece it was a blast to listen to and the LP is my preferred mastering. I also have a piece of history of one of may favorite bands from my youth. Fun part of the hobby for me.

PXL_20230509_001929135.jpg
 

MattHooper

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Get an original WB "Palm Label" first pressing. They pressed millions with several different mastering engineers but from what I have read and heard they are all good. The Millennials have bid them up a little but you should not have a problem finding a good NM copy. I have been looking for an alleged "Robert Ludwig" mastering for years but have never seen one and don't know if they really exist or not.

Thanks! I'll seek it out.

I actually tend to purchase most records from Discogs. Even though I'm actually surrounded by record stores. But dropping in to the record store around the corner
I found a Commodores record I wanted, $4, brought it home not expecting much but it was in superb condition. Super quiet wax. The sound was stellar.
 

levimax

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Thanks! I'll seek it out.

I actually tend to purchase most records from Discogs. Even though I'm actually surrounded by record stores. But dropping in to the record store around the corner
I found a Commodores record I wanted, $4, brought it home not expecting much but it was in superb condition. Super quiet wax. The sound was stellar.
Nothing is more hit or miss than used records.
 

spigot

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Lots of tinkering and upgrades could appeal more to the hobbyist than a single purchase of a DAC to be plugged into a computer. Audiophiles love an upgrade path and tinkering, you see it with cables etc.
 

Sal1950

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I was wondering about Rumours - which version to purchase.

I bought a copy of Rumours on LP several years ago at a local record store. It was a 2009 re-issue and I was disapointed. It sounded sort of dull and muffled IIRC.
Check the list,
 

sergeauckland

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Nothing is more hit or miss than used records.
Maybe I've been lucky, but the vast majority of my LPs, almost all bought used, have been fine once cleaned properly. Out of some 500, only around 5 have been unplayable due to wear. There are a few clicks and pops, but so there is with the very few sold as 'new'.

I have a theory that as most LPs have been played with a spherical stylus, these will wear a line in the groove walls, which my line contact stylii bridge, to contact 'clean' vinyl. Deep cleaning with a vacuum cleaning machine I think is essential, but so it is with new vinyl.

I'm constantly surprised by how good 60 or 70 year old vinyl can sound. Early stereo can be a bit 'ping-pong', but then that's what the mono switch is good for.

S
 

levimax

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Maybe I've been lucky, but the vast majority of my LPs, almost all bought used, have been fine once cleaned properly. Out of some 500, only around 5 have been unplayable due to wear. There are a few clicks and pops, but so there is with the very few sold as 'new'.

I have a theory that as most LPs have been played with a spherical stylus, these will wear a line in the groove walls, which my line contact stylii bridge, to contact 'clean' vinyl. Deep cleaning with a vacuum cleaning machine I think is essential, but so it is with new vinyl.

I'm constantly surprised by how good 60 or 70 year old vinyl can sound. Early stereo can be a bit 'ping-pong', but then that's what the mono switch is good for.

S
At 99% you have better luck than I have. While I have very few used "unplayable" LP's I do have a fair number of "disappointments" which range from noise to wear/damage to a poor recording or poor pressing to begin with. I agree that a line contact will play most used records with less noise and distortion. Some of my favorite LP's are from the late1950's, especially mono recordings which can be surprisingly quiet. I used to pick them up cheap so didn't mind taking some "risk" but this weekend I came across an original mono Sarah Vaughan album from the late 1950's which looked a little sketchy and they wanted $35 for it which is too much for me. Maybe I am being too careful though... I see original Blue Note LP's like Cool Struttin' going for thousands of dollars.
 
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