Please help me select

[LucS]

Hello all,

Looking for a few months now what to buy as my first vinyl setup. The setup will be vinyl only. Dont listen anything else other than streaming. If i ever go for a home cinema, that would be a whole other ballgame but has nothing to do with this. Tried to go the vintage road, but not much available where i live , the risk of higher maintenance costs and/ or buying something abroad that i did not test myself kinda threw me off and i decided to buy something new rather than old and hope for the best. Buying in EU.

Now i have a good deal on a Audio-Technica AT-LP120 for euro 269 ( damaged box but product as good as new from reputable store ) or a AT-LP5x for 325 but i don't like the minimalistic look on that one so i rather go for the LP120.

For the amp, after checking some reviews, i think im going with the Denon PMA-600NE for euro 379. The analoge switch is nice, as is the BT so i can still stream Apple music when i want to without adding something else.

Now im not sure about the speakers. After reading this : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-floorstanding-when-we-have-subwoofers.61505/ i think my best option would be floorstanding ones. Also i live 12 up in an appartment, and my downstairs neighbour still loves me despite my F1 weekend volume, i dont think more bass will help him keep liking me.

That said, i do love the look of bookshelf ones on stands. But then again, floor standing ones are just as nice. A inbetween wich looks insane are those vintage monitors, then put up on a stand ?

As said, im not sure what to chose. and even when people say, searching is half the fun, it becomes less fun for me the more i search. So im asking some help.

What do you think of my record player and amp, and do you have some suggestions for me for like +/- 500 for speakers making this total setup around euro 1200.

If it matters, my appartment is 8x5 into a 4x4 kitchen. on long walls nothing but some canvas and a 65 inch tv on one side. the short walls, one is open kitchen and the other side is a balcony door and 2 big windows that reach 70% of the height. Thin curtains and roller blinds. laminate floor, no rugs. One massive 3m20 lounge sofa that im looking to replace for 2 stressless chairs. a 2 m oak dining room table with open chairs and 2 oak side tables at my couch. appartment is well isolated so no church feeling.

Would love to hear some ideas, so thanks in advance for any help you can throw my way. I want to stop searching and start buying so i can start enjoying.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Do you have any Hifi/Stereo today?

 

[LucS]

Do you have any Hifi/Stereo today?

no, the only thing i have is a 3.1 soundbar.

 

[Zek]

Do you have any records?
If you're starting to collect records now, it's a very expensive hobby and I don't think there's much point in it.
There's a much larger and cheaper selection of digital audio formats.

Just my 2c.

 

[DMill]

That said, i do love the look of bookshelf ones on stands. But then again, floor standing ones are just as nice. A inbetween wich looks insane are those vintage monitors, then put up on a stand ?

For music floorstanders will allow you to not have to deal with integrating a sub. And they take up no more room than bookshelf speakers in stands. If you watch a lot of movies, you may want a sub, as truly full range floorstanders can get quite expensive.

 

[DVDdoug]

Looking for a few months now what to buy as my first vinyl setup.

Why?

You may have good reasons but it's an inferior-outdated format. I grew-up in the vinyl days and "snap", "crackle", and "pop" always annoyed me, especially if it was my record and I knew when that nasty click was coming... I'd be waiting for the click instead of enjoying the music. New records usually don't have nasty clicks but there is some background noise not present in digital. And even though I tried to take care of my records, somehow they "accumulated" damage.

There are also frequency response variations that you don't get with digital, and some records will play with audible distortion. But NOISE is the BIG issue.

Now i have a good deal on a Audio-Technica AT-LP120

If I was in the market for a turntable, that's probably the one I'd probably buy. I doesn't seem too cheap or too expensive. It's direct drive so there are no belts or drive wheels to wear out, and it comes "ready to play" with a cartridge and built-in phono preamp. Plus it's got USB for digitizing records. "Traditional" turntables don't come with a cartridge or preamp. In the old days every receiver had a built-in phono preamp but not all new ones do. That Denon has one, so you can use it, or the one built-into the AT-LP120.

...I've got a 40-year old Technics direct drive (not the expensive one) and it still works fine. (For the past few decades it's only been used to occasionally digitize a record that I couldn't find in digital format.)

What do you think of my record player and amp, and do you have some suggestions for me for like +/- 500 for speakers

Speakers make the biggest difference in sound. If possible, visit an audio/video store, just to get an idea of what different speakers sound like. You'll probably end-up wanting speakers that are beyond your budget but it should be educational.

You might also think about headphones. Headphones are a "different listening experience" but with headphones there's very little correlation between sound quality and cost. You'll see that if you sort the reviews here by "recommended". For example, the AKG K371 is highly-rated for sound quality and it's about $150 USD. (It does have a reputation for being fragile, but mine haven't broken yet...) And of course you can turn-up headphones without bothering your neighbors.

 

[RayDunzl]

Play a record with scratches and see if that floats your boat before committing.

Especially if you can find one that skips a groove or gets stuck on the same groove. I have both.

I think I bought a total of like 7 records back when that's all there was in the 60's and 70's.

For the reason in the first sentence.

I may have bought one prerecorded cassette.

The thing to do was to record an LP onto Cassette before it got damaged, and listen to the tape.

Digital came along, and I bought a boatload of CDs (mostly used off eBay and Amazon as they were cheap and I arrived late to the party due to being a Travelling Man).

 

[Balle Clorin]

How many records would you like to have? 10? 100, 500 1000?
If you buy one record a month for 30-50usd/euro you will have modest collection of 500 records in 10 years and gave spent 15 000-25 000 usd/e . Are you prepared to do that, and have a poorer sound? And to buy a new cartridge for 100-1000 usd every year. ?

When I started with vinyl it was the only available format for , and expensive too a. LP could cost maybe 5 hours of my salary every purchase was a big decision , and records were treasured and cared for.

If you do just want to listening to music vinyl is not a wise option, get Tidal, Spotify or even Roon instead or even CD if you want to avoid subscriptions. , but if you want a hobby to learn and enjoy vintage techology and tweak and tinker with stuff for fun it can be fun, still is , 95% of my records I bought in the 70-80s. I play them for fun and nostalgia and too see how far the technology can go.. I can afford it now..but I am very reluctant to regularly buy new records, too expensive and quality vary a lot..so I only buy items that mean something special to me..

 

[xanalog]

Welcome aboard, @LucS,

...as truly full range floorstanders can get quite expensive.

But the Return-on-Investment can never be disputed.
It may take some inner strength, time and a learning curve for you to study herein at ASR, for upping your game beyond a soundbar to a full-range pair of speakers.
As you may have already realized that the correct choice of the proper speakers (and the room in which they will be setup, type of music, WAF, price, etc.), you will realize it is not like choosing between Haagen-Dasz or Ben&Jerry's at the store.
The purchase of speakers should be treated more like a long-term (>5year) investment.
Take your time making your decision based on many great suggestions herein, but make that choice an educated one.
And, then, when you do, come back here and let us know and/or brag!

 

[LucS]

Thanks all for the replies, even if they weren’t what I was hoping for.


To clarify: I didn’t post to debate the value of vinyl, or whether streaming is better. I’m well aware of the limitations of the format, and still made the choice consciously. That’s not ignorance, that’s personal preference.

I also wasn’t asking whether I should get into vinyl, or whether it’s “worth it” financially. I’ve spent months comparing options, balancing aesthetics, availability, and practicality. I just wanted to build a setup that I can afford now and enjoy for years to come and not as a lab experiment or a benchmark war, but as something I can live with, look at, and listen to and upgrade as we go.

Reading quite a bit before i signed up and came here expecting some gear input, maybe thoughts on my AT-LP120 + PMA-600NE combo and especially some guidance on speaker choice within my budget. I described my space, taste, and constraints, hoping someone could help with that last part of the chain. Instead, the replies mostly tried to talk me out of the whole thing.

Honestly, I thought Reddit was as bad as it gets when asking audiophiles for advice but this thread may have proven me wrong. That’s not meant as a jab, just a reflection on how hard it seems to get help without having to defend your taste first.

That said, I do appreciate the time and effort, even if we weren’t on the same page.

I’ll take the feedback for what it is, move forward with what does align, and keep building something that brings me joy, even if it doesn’t tick every measurement box. After all, that’s the point, isn’t it?

 

[xanalog]

Oh, Why did you not say so!
You should have asked for the famous ASR concierge service, where members provide the fish-pole, the hook, the bait, and even the fish cooked to your specific tastes.
I apologize for all of us.
Cheers!

 

[DMill]

I’ll take the feedback for what it is, move forward with what does align, and keep building something that brings me joy, even if it doesn’t tick every measurement box. After all, that’s the point, isn’t it?

Hang in there and you will get good advice. The internet sucks with people who just like to be “right”. It’s not this site, just an observation. I have no problem with recommendations to consider other alternatives, but I’d at least like to see if you go this path here is some helpful thoughts… Maybe look in the mirror when commenting and wonder if you are a dick?

 

[kemmler3D]

do you have some suggestions for me for like +/- 500 for speakers

So, first off, sorry if the responses were not what you are hoping for, but in general the membership tries to save people money / hassle even against their will. If you have your heart set on a vinyl setup, so be it.

If you are not going to add subs, I think floorstanders are a good bet. In the EUR 500 range for speakers I would also strongly recommend looking for secondhand speakers. $500 will not get you an amazing new floorstanding speaker, but can get you pretty far if you are willing to look at used ones.

In that price range on the used market I would be looking at Elac, Polk, KEF, and (although they are bookshelves) keep your eye out for a lucky deal on Genelec 8030 or Neumann KH120, perhaps.

You can also find some vintage speakers that are great values 10-15 years on, but you have to dig deep to find detailed reviews and know what you are buying.

If you are set on new in that price range in EU, I would be trying to hunt down a deal on some Elac DBR62 bookshelves.

As a rough guide you can also use this site: https://www.spinorama.org/ - roughly speaking preference score is a reliable guide to quality (+/- 1 point), sort descending and see what you can find in your budget that suits your taste. It's not an absolutely perfect ranking, but this is a fairly comprehensive list of speakers that have detailed measurements published, so at least you know what you are buying if you find one here.

 

[mike70]

@LucS ... I use and love vinyl since 70s.

Want a short advice?

Any of the new AT turntable line, as an example the LP5x direct drive (no striped belts to change), comes with phono preamp, USB output and VM95e cartridge (a very good initial cartridge.

Later, you can change the stylus for the ML (microline), and transform your cartridge for the best bang for the buck today in cartridges ... AT VM95ML... microline stylus means 1000 hours lifespan (in "normal" use is like 8 - 10 years), no IGD or sibilances, better high frequency definition, etc

Take this advice and then tell me.

 

[GuidoK]

I think it's very strange that the eternal discussion is again posted here about how bad the specs of vinyl records/turntables are. As if we listen to specs.....
The music (as in the mastermix in the studio) that is cut on the laquer/dmm is often totally different than the mix that is used for digital media/distribution simply because Vinyl records don't lend themselves to certain fashion trends in music production. There are loads of albums from the early 90's and onwards that sound totally different on CD/Streaming because they've been compressed into oblivion (loudness war, see https://dr.loudness-war.info/ for a very extensive comparison with thousands of albums) and sound (imho) way better on vinyl record. And because it sounds different, it gives us a choice. And that is always a good thing!
Are there albums that sound better on CD? Yes there are loads!.
But there are also loads of vinyl records that sound better than their CD releases.
I also don't get that these discussions are started as if one has to make a choice to choose either the one or the other.
For me it's both! For me its an: ' and+and situation'.
I listen to vinyl, CD's, streaming, MP3's, FLAC's...it all brings me joy

As for the equipment advice:
Always start with a turntable that has adjustable tracking force ('needle pressure') and adjustable antiskating (if it has a conventional pivoting tonearm).
This gives you the option to change out different cartridges for the turntable that can have a very big effect on the quality of playback (the AT VM95ML mentioned above is a great cartridge for around €150 and performs imho often better than lots of cartridge from other markes that are 3 times as expensive. And as mentioned above, it's stylus shape (microline) has a very long lifetime and during those playback hours, the tracking performance degrades way less than most other used stylus profiles (conical/elliptical/shibata.

Always start with a turntable that has a tonearm/headshell that accepts 1/2" mounting style cartridges (with the 2 screws in the cartridge that go in the 2 slots). Other mounting styles severely limit the choice of available cartriges and when a better cartridge is desired, it can become very expensive very fast.
A turntable with a detacheable headshell makes fitting a new cartridge easier.
The AT LP120 has the features above an is an excellent turntable for that price.
You've said that you don't like the minimalistic look from the at-lp5x, but you could also look at a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC
If you need a separate preamp, (so if you're buying a turntable that doesn't have one internally) the Fosi box x5 is an excellent phono preamp for around €120:

Fosi Audio Box X5 Phono Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Fosi Audio Box X5 stereo Phono stage. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $109.99. Company manages to bring a touch of class in a category that is universally utilitarian with those rounded corners and orange power button. Flexibility...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If budget is tight, and you're a handy guy, buying a used turntable might be a very good option. Lots of 80's and 70's models outperform modern budget turntables for a fraction of the price. But these are of course 40+year old machines, so maintenance/repairs is a thing. Here are often specialized resellers that focus on repairing/maintaining old turntables and sell them with warranty (but at a price obviously)

When you start with vinyl playback take into account that you need some accesoiries. Especially when buying used records, you need a form of wetcleaning your records. A clean record will sound better on the cheapest turntable than a dirty record on the most expensive turntable. Record cleaning machines start from around €70 (like the knosti disco antistat, a tub with brushes and cleaning solution in which you rotate the record manually) and here also the sky is the limit for expensive ones.
You also need a record brush (every time you play a record, you brush them off while it's rotating on the turntable) and a stylus cleaning brush

 

[LucS]

Hang in there and you will get good advice. The internet sucks with people who just like to be “right”. It’s not this site, just an observation. I have no problem with recommendations to consider other alternatives, but I’d at least like to see if you go this path here is some helpful thoughts… Maybe look in the mirror when commenting and wonder if you are a dick?

Appreciate the effort, but that last bit....

You write that as if it’s some universal guideline, but it’s obviously aimed at me. I was respectful, clear, and specific in my post. If you think asking for practical advice about a setup I already explained and justified makes me the unreasonable one, then maybe you should follow your own advice.


This could’ve been a constructive discussion. Instead, I feel like I got lectured, second-guessed, and then subtly insulted for not following the “ASR-approved” path. That's not help, that's gatekeeping.

 

[LucS]

@LucS ... I use and love vinyl since 70s.

Want a short advice?

Any of the new AT turntable line, as an example the LP5x direct drive (no striped belts to change), comes with phono preamp, USB output and VM95e cartridge (a very good initial cartridge.

Later, you can change the stylus for the ML (microline), and transform your cartridge for the best bang for the buck today in cartridges ... AT VM95ML... microline stylus means 1000 hours lifespan (in "normal" use is like 8 - 10 years), no IGD or sibilances, better high frequency definition, etc

Take this advice and then tell me.

Thanks for the advice ,the VM95ML is definitely on my radar.

But I have to disagree with the claim that it lasts 8–10 years as im sure u u already know. A microline stylus rated for 1000 hours would last 2 years tops if you're listening ~10 hours a week, which seems pretty average. Add in the occasional dirty or used (read: lesser quality) record, and it's probably even less.

Still, it's a great stylus for the money , no argument there ,but let's not oversell the lifespan.

As for the amp: I'm looking for a separate one because I've read in several places that the AT's built-in preamp isn’t that great. Some even advised removing it completely, saying it could still introduce interference even when switched off. Now, I don’t know how true that is ,I'm no tech expert ,and removing it sounds a bit extreme. But it's enough to make me lean toward an external solution just to be safe.

 

[Mort]

How much are you going to spend on vinyl when you have $500 speakers?

Your resource allocation might need tweaking if the goal is audio fidelity on that budget.

 

[LucS]

Do you have any records?
If you're starting to collect records now, it's a very expensive hobby and I don't think there's much point in it.
There's a much larger and cheaper selection of digital audio formats.

Just my 2c. View attachment 460519

I never liked CDs. If I wanted that, I’d just set up a streaming system that gets as close to lossless as possible.

I like vinyl ,pops, crackles, and all the feels included. It’s not my first time listening to vinyl, just that for the last 10+ years I only had streaming.

Regarding cost: in my area alone, within a 30 km radius, there are plenty of second-hand vinyl shops. Marketplaces are full of people selling, often not just one or two records but hundreds or even thousands at once. Sure, buying a batch of hundreds won’t guarantee 10-20 gems I like. not to speak of the quality of said vinyl, but the sellers with thousands are usually private owned, so no store. You can browse at their home and pay between 3 to 10 euros per piece, which makes collecting much more manageable than most assume. And yes ive glanced over at discogs already to find some albums, and i see the prices. So im aware it can cost money for pieces u really want.

 

[LucS]

How much are you going to spend on vinyl when you have $500 speakers?

Your resource allocation might need tweaking if the goal is audio fidelity on that budget.

True, it’s a fair question.

I’m aware that with a euro 500 speaker budget, chasing perfect vinyl fidelity isn’t realistic. But this isn’t just about specs , it’s about enjoying the whole experience.

That said, I’m balancing my spending across the setup to get the best overall enjoyment within my budget. If that means compromises on some parts, I accept it. It’s a hobby, not a lab experiment.

I could stretch that euro 500 to, say, euro 700 and then find a deal like I did on the AT (80 off because of a damaged box, but guaranteed as new from a reputable shop). So with a deal, that could be a euro 1000+ speaker set for euro 700. Or even higher if I look secondhand , but then I need to know what I’m searching for, and right now I don’t.

example of what i found , but i dont know much about it ( https://www.benderhifi.nl/cambridge-audio-sx-80.html) but im sure theres way more deals like this and even second hand that value of a speaker compared to price paid can go up even more.