Trying to troubleshoot listening fatigue

[v4257]

Venerated Audiophiles - I come seeking wisdom.

Always loved music - but since WFH - have gotten back into it and have been on a fun audio journey to setup the perfect WFH desktop setup. Right now - trying to solve for smoothness & listening fatigue

I tried a few speakers - Klipsch (headache), PSB P3 (smooth but veiled and lacked detail), and currently on a pair of JBL 530. The 530s seem to have good balance & detail & seem well liked here - so sticking with the 530s for now.

Have tried a few amps. Currently on a SMSL SA300 - but also had a Loxjie A30; I had the same issue with the A30. This system gives me listening fatigue and I wonder how to deal with it?

Right now the sound path is laptop (Tidal)-->USB->SMSL SA 300 (DAC/AMP)-->JBL 530

I recently tried a friend's Reisong tube amp. With that amp - there was no fatigue, but at the expense of reduced separation and clarity.

SO - what's my (budget friendly) way to solve this?

I'm considering:

1. Inserting a tube premp (something like this) in the path and see if that will smooth out some of the harshness? ($50?)
2. Swap out my Class D amp for a tube amp or a class A/B amp. ($200-500?)

This is my deskptp office system and I don't want to go crazy, but I'm now realizing that clarity isn't everything and want to get back some of that smooth tube sound without spending too many $$.

Any tips you can offer will be much appreciated.

 

[Leporello]

First: turn the volume down. If that does not help, use eq. Most perceived differences between amps are caused by your imagination. Changes made with eq are at least real.

But the most important thing is to get used to the sound. Constantly thinking about the possible shortcomings of your system will only ensure that your listening fatigue will never disappear. Been there, done that.

 

[nimar]

Umik + Rew = Room correction. Dramatically improved my listening experience. Both in fixing bass issues but also applying a downward sloping house curve.

Depending on OS / setup there are different bits of software that can do DSP on your computer.

Edit. +1 on @Leporello's suggestion on volume. Due to the brains ability to compensate for loudness, many listen too loud. I just switched from a balanced headphone cable to SE and at first it seemed too quiet, a day later volume knob is at the same setting as before but sounds perfect.

 

[v4257]

First: turn the volume down. If that does not help, use eq.

Thank you! I am listening at very low volumes (so 10-15 on the SMSL dial); I don't think volume causes my fatigue; As I mentioned - I had the Reisong A10 for a while and listening at louder volumes than this gave me no fatigue.

The current setup gives me a headache in an hour. It somehow just sounds more harsh/jagged....

 

[AdamG]

Thank you! I am listening at very low volumes (so 10-15 on the SMSL dial); I don't think volume causes my fatigue; As I mentioned - I had the Reisong A10 for a while and listening at louder volumes than this gave me no fatigue.

The current setup gives me a headache in an hour. It somehow just sounds more harsh/jagged....

Lots of reflective surfaces (Glass, tile, wood, steel, sheet rock) can increase and magnify high frequency sound. Too much HF energy bouncing around the room can cause fatigue. As others have mentioned Eq the speakers and if you can measure the rooms Frequency Response and post the graphs here. Then you will get much more focused and corrective advice.

The words “harsh, jagged” infer possible high levels of distortion. Just a guess.

 

[LearningToSmile]

Umik + Rew = Room correction. Dramatically improved my listening experience. Both in fixing bass issues but also applying a downward sloping house curve.

Depending on OS / setup there are different bits of software that can do DSP on your computer.

Edit. +1 on @Leporello's suggestion on volume. Due to the brains ability to compensate for loudness, many listen too loud. I just switched from a balanced headphone cable to SE and at first it seemed too quiet, a day later volume knob is at the same setting as before but sounds perfect.

Yeah, definitely purchase a minidsp UMIK-1 or a similar measurement microphone, and use REW to measure and correct the response of your speakers. Smoothing out the response of my speakers and applying a gentle roll off in the treble allowed me to listen louder with less listening fatigue. And I didn't even go particularly deep into what's possible.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Venerated Audiophiles - I come seeking wisdom.

Always loved music - but since WFH - have gotten back into it and have been on a fun audio journey to setup the perfect WFH desktop setup.

Don't mean to sound dense, but what is WFH? This site in general has too many acronyms which people who don't have the secret decoder ring are mystified by. FTAPQ-ARMb.

 

[Jim Matthews]

May I suggest a "tilt" filter?

Centered somewhere around 5 kHz with a downward slope as frequency increases.

Raise it until you are satisfied with detail presentation, then back it off 1/4 turn.

 

[nimar]

WFH

I assumed "Working From Home" but now that I think about it, one could get creative.

Whitefish (Amtrak station code; Whitefish, MT)
World Federation of Hemophilia (Fédération Mondiale de l'Hémophilie)
Workflow Habitat
Work for Hire
Warriors for Hire (fanfiction)
Worldfest-Houston (film festival; Houston, TX)
Week from Hell
World Federation of Healing
Wages for Housework
Wholeness For Humanity (Washington, DC)
We Fly High
Warsztaty Fotograficzne Hejber (Hejber Photographic Workshop)
Weep for Humanity (website)
Workfile History

Depending on the music choice, perhaps weep for humanity?

... fun audio journey to setup the perfect Weeping For Humanity desktop setup ...

The shoe fits.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I assumed "Working From Home" but now that I think about it, one could get creative.



Depending on the music choice, perhaps weep for humanity?



The shoe fits.

TYVMFTS.

 

[v4257]

Thanks all for your responses - much oblidged!

>As others have mentioned Eq the speakers and if you can measure the rooms Frequency Response and post the graphs here. Then you will get much more focused and corrective advice.

I shall do this and report back!

 

[Jimbob54]

I think every response may well have a point but lets not forget the fact that you may not actually be able to relax in your home environment now that it is also your work environment. Especially if your listening desk is also your working desk.

How you perceive your system/ music has as much to do with you as it does your set up.

 

[raindance]

He said it's a desktop setup, right? Those speakers aren't designed for ultra near field use, they'll be too flat and cold sounding, no downward spectral tilt towards the higher frequencies. Tilt control might help some, but I've got a pair of 530's and I really don't feel that getting close to that horn/waveguide is what I'd want to do. Get the speakers further away from yourself, close to the wall if you can, about 2' from the wall with ports plugged gets you a warmer, fuller sound. Also don't toe them in at all. I can't really enjoy mine from closer than 10' listening distance and I've got a fairly dead room.

 

[majingotan]

I think every response may well have a point but lets not forget the fact that you may not actually be able to relax in your home environment now that it is also your work environment. Especially if your listening desk is also your working desk.

How you perceive your system/ music has as much to do with you as it does your set up.

Mood, physical tiredness etc. does play a huge factor in listening fatigue. Also the time of the day. I find that it's harder for me to listen at THX reference dB SPLs (85 -105 dB SPL) with my HS7 in the morning compared to early evening to late evening where I can crank it up to THX reference and listen at those levels with ZERO listening fatigue whatsoever. Same deal with my IEM listening where I can listen at 90-100+ dBa (a-weighted) for hours with zero listening fatigue if I have no physical or mental fatigue during that listening session.

 

[v4257]

He said it's a desktop setup, right? Those speakers aren't designed for ultra near field use, they'll be too flat and cold sounding, no downward spectral tilt towards the higher frequencies. Tilt control might help some, but I've got a pair of 530's and I really don't feel that getting close to that horn/waveguide is what I'd want to do. Get the speakers further away from yourself, close to the wall if you can, about 2' from the wall with ports plugged gets you a warmer, fuller sound. Also don't toe them in at all. I can't really enjoy mine from closer than 10' listening distance and I've got a fairly dead room.

Thank you; I am going to move them away from my desk and see if that improves the overall experience.

 

[FrantzM]

He said it's a desktop setup, right? Those speakers aren't designed for ultra near field use, they'll be too flat and cold sounding, no downward spectral tilt towards the higher frequencies. Tilt control might help some, but I've got a pair of 530's and I really don't feel that getting close to that horn/waveguide is what I'd want to do. Get the speakers further away from yourself, close to the wall if you can, about 2' from the wall with ports plugged gets you a warmer, fuller sound. Also don't toe them in at all. I can't really enjoy mine from closer than 10' listening distance and I've got a fairly dead room.

+1

 

[David Harper]

My listening fatigue seems to be caused by me not being in the mood to listen to music on my system. If I turn the volume down and get busy with something else the music starts sounding good again. Also try listening to music you never heard before like internet radio. Works for me.

 

[Vict0r]

May I suggest a properly filled glass or two of a decent red wine? Cheaper than room treatment and the psychoacoustic benefits are not to be sneezed at.

Me: "Hmm, sounds a bit peaky around 6khz, gotta tweak EQ some more."
Me after two glasses of wine: "OMG WHO NEEDZZ ZA BMW NAUTILUSES MY RIG IS GOD THIS BASS SLAPSS"

 

[v4257]

A very quick update:
As an experiment - I replaced my SMSL class D amplifier with a 5 year old Yamaha Class A/B Receiver that I had.

The difference is dramatic. Fatigue is gone. So I def think a different amp def will do the trick. I'm going to try to find a Class A or Class AB amp for my desktop setup.

For class A: SMSL VMV A1 seems nice. At 660 - it's more than I want to spend and has limited reviews - but intriguing. I am also considering Reisong A10; as well as the Hood 1969 clones on ebay/aliexpess.

For class AB: more choice - but Vista Spark is top of my list there.

Lingering concerns: above don't have a dedicated sub-out. I have a PSB sub - be nice to get a sub-out without having to do RCA in-out from Sub's amp.

Welcome any feedback from the veterans here.

 

[Loathecliff]

A very quick update:

For class AB: more choice - but Vista Spark is top of my list there.


Welcome any feedback from the veterans here.

A Vista Spark you say?
That sounds familiar.
Made in Serbia?
If so, the mighty Amir tested one very recently