Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM Review

[GaryH]

removed some of the life in the bass

You find an increase in bass response removes some of the life out of it? Curious.

The preference is mine, so if I say I found it, who's to argue?

If the comparison isn't level-matched, it's not your preference of the frequency responses, it's your preference of the FR + loudness differences, and most often the louder response will be preferred. And if it's not done blind, the preference isn't entirely yours and of the actual sound either; it's polluted by all the extraneous non-sound confounding variables that influence your perception, including Truthear's ubiquitous marketing telling you the Red is supposedly more 'neutral', Harman IE is 'shouty', bass-boosted etc.

 

[markanini]

A 2dB tweak on bass levels is nothing like the anemic bass of openbacks. Remember that low pitched sounds in music aren't pure sine tone. If you the decrease the fundatmentals, you also increase the harmonics, relatively.

 

[khensu]

You find an increase in bass response removes some of the life out of it? Curious.

Yeah, I know. It sounds weird. It's not a big difference. It's not weakening the bass response per-se. It just seems a bit muddier.

If the comparison isn't level-matched, it's not your preference of the frequency responses, it's your preference of the FR + loudness differences, and most often the louder response will be preferred. And if it's not done blind, the preference isn't entirely yours and of the actual sound either; it's polluted by all the extraneous non-sound confounding variables that influence your perception, including Truthear's ubiquitous marketing telling you the Red is supposedly more 'neutral', Harman IE is 'shouty', bass-boosted etc.

I don't disagree with anything you said. As I alluded to earlier, though, what I hear without EQ still sounds the most correct to me, levels not withstanding. I'm not hunting for perfection, though. It would take a lot more listening and tweaking to get to that point, but what I hear now more than meets my criteria. It's time to enjoy the music!

 

[CapMan]

I purchased some Comply t 600 foam tips (large) for the Reds and that has really helped with a consistent and comfortable seal. The supplied foam tops were a little small. The large silicon tips too delicate to keep a good seal.

 

[bahamot]

Got mine, so far love these. Wish these were more comfortable though...

 

[half_dog]

Sorry for asking this again, but if someone actually has the Zero: Red and a Moondrop kato could talk about them? I'm asking it because since a few days I have been feeling a little annoyed about Kato's treble region more specific at 5 to 8kHz. I discovered this region by EQing it and compering to Truthear Hola and EQing it as well. Hola seems too dark because of its elevated bass and midbass but when those are attenuated Hola mids and highs seems almost on spot for my personal preference. 1 to 2 dB at 5 to 8kHz and it's awesome - Kato is around 5dB higher than Hola at this range.
But why I'm asking about Kato and Zero: Red? Because according to Crinacle and other reviewers measurements (IEC711 clone coupler) both has a similar response at pinna gain. However when comparing both at WoodenEars measurements Kato has more pinna gain and Red and Hola are closer - to my target. I'm inclined to buy a Red but if could tell how they behave when compared to each other will be great help to sanate my doub.

Crinacle's 711 Graph Tool | Hangout.Audio

Compare graphs from the world's largest public database of IEC60318-4 IEM measurements, maintained by Crinacle.

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Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Super* Review

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

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耳机对比 | Woodenears吾等益耳

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www.woodenears.com

 

[kairo.de]

Sorry for asking this again, but if someone actually has the Zero: Red and a Moondrop kato could talk about them? I'm asking it because since a few days I have been feeling a little annoyed about Kato's treble region more specific at 5 to 8kHz. I discovered this region by EQing it and compering to Truthear Hola and EQing it as well. Hola seems too dark because of its elevated bass and midbass but when those are attenuated Hola mids and highs seems almost on spot for my personal preference. 1 to 2 dB at 5 to 8kHz and it's awesome - Kato is around 5dB higher than Hola at this range.
But why I'm asking about Kato and Zero: Red? Because according to Crinacle and other reviewers measurements (IEC711 clone coupler) both has a similar response at pinna gain. However when comparing both at WoodenEars measurements Kato has more pinna gain and Red and Hola are closer - to my target. I'm inclined to buy a Red but if could tell how they behave when compared to each other will be great help to sanate my doub.

Crinacle's 711 Graph Tool | Hangout.Audio

Compare graphs from the world's largest public database of IEC60318-4 IEM measurements, maintained by Crinacle.

crinacle.com

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Super* Review

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

squig.link

耳机对比 | Woodenears吾等益耳

ç¸å½ä¸ä¸çHiFié³é¢åæ°ç å¨è¯¢æµè¯ç§æ®åå享

www.woodenears.com

To my ears, the Red are more relaxed in the region you describe. The Kato I could not hear as long and relaxed as the red without adapter.

 

[markanini]

Just an anecdote that circles back to the Truthear Reds response curve. I recently got the Moondrop Chu. It has the fourth highest Harman score on AutoEQs raking list. As usual I opened my playlist familiar of songs, and used EQ to manually account for unit variation, individual fit, and taste. It was a simple dual shelf setup, similar to original Harman research, but I modified corner frequencies as I was adjusting a finished product.

The remarkable part was how my EQ adjustment changed over the course of several hours. Both my initial and final EQ amounted to a kind of warm tilt. But my final one was less U-shaped. To counter volume bias I used ABLM2 in the signal chain.

If I'm a typical listener this suggests a more U-shaped response is preferred in the short term, but a less U-shaped response is preferred at the end of a longer listening session. This ties back to Red which is targeting a less U-shaped variant of the Harman IE target. Harman IE had to be developed based on short term listening. It could then be argued that Red represents an IEM that holds up well to long session listening. Hopefully future research can cover the precise impact.

 

[half_dog]

To my ears, the Red are more relaxed in the region you describe. The Kato I could not hear as long and relaxed as the red without adapter.

Thanks!! I pulled the trigger and bought a pair
My only concern now is its fit.

 

[markanini]

Some evidence that my liking of Reds FR is due to personal preference, rather than hype.

The post EQ responses were arrived at blindly, without looking at a graph, listening to familiar songs, and using a volume-matching DSP chain. Reds stock response didn't need EQ.

 

[Robbo99999]

Some evidence that my liking of Reds FR is due to personal preference, rather than hype.

View attachment 298765

The post EQ responses were arrived at blindly, without looking at a graph, listening to familiar songs, and using a volume-matching DSP chain. Reds stock response didn't need EQ.

That's good, although you might have been influenced by the frequency responses that you already knew for all those 3 IEMs.

 

[markanini]

That's good, although you might have been influenced by the frequency responses that you already knew for all those 3 IEMs.

Seems you are saying that, other than for the reason of preference, for me to blind EQ different IEMs, to roughly the same response, It would be because of a learned FR? Perhaps from my speaker setup, if I'm entertaining your thought. But Is it a meaningful distinction to make?

 

[Robbo99999]

Seems you are saying that, other than for the reason of preference, for me to blind EQ different IEMs, to roughly the same response, It would be because of a learned FR? Perhaps from my speaker setup, if I'm entertaining your thought. But Is it a meaningful distinction to make?

I'm not relating anything to your speaker setup. I'm just saying that you probably already knew the frequency response for each IEM and already had those visualised in your mind, so you could have had that as a subconscious bias that influenced your EQ decisions whilst you were listening. (ie you already knew what rough equalisations you would need to make to each IEM to match your own target curve before you started listening to them).

 

[WickedInsignia]

I have the original Zero but since the ergonomics are identical:
The wide bores on these pose a fit/comfort issue. I myself can't wear them for more than 30 mins due to the wide bore making my ears sore.
It seems to be a pretty standard complaint. The AKG K371 has widespread fit issues as well and are the only headphone that won't properly seal on my ears.
Just a shame that well-measuring cheap passive options seem to generally have ergonomics problems.

Any chi-fi that approaches these in terms of SQ but with a more comfortable design? The Hexa & Hola seem similar but the bore diameter isn't drastically better from the specs.

 

[CapMan]

The wide bores on these pose a fit/comfort issue. I myself can't wear them for more than 30 mins due to the wide bore making my ears sore.

No fit issues for me at all, very comfortable
with Comply tips.

 

[CapMan]

Just a shame that well-measuring cheap passive options seem to generally have ergonomics problems.

Isn’t that a rather sweeping generalisation?

 

[IAtaman]

Just a shame that well-measuring cheap passive options seem to generally have ergonomics problems.

Maybe that is the wrong generalization, maybe it's just that it is hard, or even impossible to develop products that is comfortable for everyone and you are an outlier in the sense that what works for most people does not work for you.

 

[Robbo99999]

I have the original Zero but since the ergonomics are identical:
The wide bores on these pose a fit/comfort issue. I myself can't wear them for more than 30 mins due to the wide bore making my ears sore.
It seems to be a pretty standard complaint. The AKG K371 has widespread fit issues as well and are the only headphone that won't properly seal on my ears.
Just a shame that well-measuring cheap passive options seem to generally have ergonomics problems.

Any chi-fi that approaches these in terms of SQ but with a more comfortable design? The Hexa & Hola seem similar but the bore diameter isn't drastically better from the specs.

Maybe that is the wrong generalization, maybe it's just that it is hard, or even impossible to develop products that is comfortable for everyone and you are an outlier in the sense that what works for most people does not work for you.

Nossles are probably a tad wide for me too on the Crinacle Zero - they gave me ear soreness after long sessions. I really don't use IEM's though, and these are the only ones I've ever tried, but I think they are a tad wide for me albeit I can get them to fit properly & sound very good, just they irritate my ear after a while. So that's just one other data point showing that they're a bit too wide for some people.

 

[markanini]

To me the large nozzles give me less pain, the fit is snug with M tips, I can wear it comfortably for many hours.

Moondrop Chu and Lan OTOH slide around in my ear, with L tips, loosing seal, forcing me to reinsert multiple times, it doesn't take long before it feels like my ear canals tense up.

I'm not relating anything to your speaker setup. I'm just saying that you probably already knew the frequency response for each IEM and already had those visualised in your mind, so you could have had that as a subconscious bias that influenced your EQ decisions whilst you were listening. (ie you already knew what rough equalisations you would need to make to each IEM to match your own target curve before you started listening to them).

I think this susceptibility is more relevant if you tend to reference established targets, and have inflated confidence in measurement data, and low unit variability. Anyone reading my posts carefully knows this is not me.

 

[Robbo99999]

I think this susceptibility is more relevant if you tend to reference established targets, and have inflated confidence in measurement data, and low unit variability. Anyone reading my posts carefully knows this is not me.

(I don't think people care that much to have such a nuanced fringe opinion on a particular users listening impression)