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Topping LA90 Discrete Amplifier Review

Rate this stereo amplifier

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 14 3.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 20 5.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 63 15.8%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 302 75.7%

  • Total voters
    399

ampguy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2022
Messages
306
Likes
178
Location
US
Has anyone just used a balanced output DAC to the amp, and the amp volume for volume control? Or are the folks experiencing issues, using the amp like an old school power amp with volume up full (and if so, gain = h or l ?) and a preamp or DAC with volume before the amp?

I'm guessing a lot of these failures are folks using RCA unbalanced to XLR connectors, not sure about this amp, but for other Topping products, this isn't recommended. At minimum you'll make the amp work harder for a given volume, and as we've seen, not all RCA unbal to XLR bal cables are the same.
 

tmitchmd

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
10
Likes
20
I bought two to use as mono blocks. After ~ one month BOTH are afflicted with the crackles and will need to be replaced.
Has Topping determined the problem and implemented a fix?
 

aphysically

Member
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
67
Likes
54
This is really turning into a nightmare with Apos - believe it or not the two failed amps are still sitting here at home with me and it's starting to seem doubtful they can make their way back to Topping. I think amirm has made a comment something along the lines before of liking to judge products not by their failures but by how they were handled, and if that's the case I really have to give the LA90D an F so far. It shouldn't take longer than I owned the product to respond to my warranty request, you shouldn't offer a return and then say you can't do a return for what you imply is financial reasons. They've sent me info on shipping it back to them so they can restock it - in response to a request for warranty service on two failed units. I sent Topping an email out-of-band to try to figure out what is going on, because the two weeks between identical emails from Apos where they answer none of my questions or requests is not cutting it, especially not for premium products, since the implication from Apos seems to be those will get less support. If my experience here stands I would honestly not recommend buying *any* premium-priced Topping products, because it seems their recommended/supported retailers aren't able to support it? Or at the very least be aware you could be SOL with problems. Maybe Topping can find a new supplier and it will be okay.
 

Down South

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
61
This is really turning into a nightmare with Apos - believe it or not the two failed amps are still sitting here at home with me and it's starting to seem doubtful they can make their way back to Topping. I think amirm has made a comment something along the lines before of liking to judge products not by their failures but by how they were handled, and if that's the case I really have to give the LA90D an F so far. It shouldn't take longer than I owned the product to respond to my warranty request, you shouldn't offer a return and then say you can't do a return for what you imply is financial reasons. They've sent me info on shipping it back to them so they can restock it - in response to a request for warranty service on two failed units. I sent Topping an email out-of-band to try to figure out what is going on, because the two weeks between identical emails from Apos where they answer none of my questions or requests is not cutting it, especially not for premium products, since the implication from Apos seems to be those will get less support. If my experience here stands I would honestly not recommend buying *any* premium-priced Topping products, because it seems their recommended/supported retailers aren't able to support it? Or at the very least be aware you could be SOL with problems. Maybe Topping can find a new supplier and it will be okay.
For whatever reason you refuse to see the reality of the situation. Topping 'seem' to create some really good designs but then fail to implement them into properly engineered products. Even basic engineering knowledge tells you dissipating heat needs to be be dealt with at the design stage. The stupidity of horizontal finning is a classic example; cramming everything into the smallest space possible is another and because no one has had the common sense to try to identify if component choice is another reason for failed units the forum is none the wiser as to why or how exactly the product is defective.

Surely it must be obvious that Apos know they have a turkey on their hands and that Topping is refusing to deal with the problem. The word that comes to mind with Topping is hubris, a very bad state of mind for a commercial company to have. A successful company will turn a negative into a positive by confronting the problem head on, admitting that the product/s have issues and deal with them, even if that means redesigning and using a different enclosure. All the reviews state what an exceptional performance is achieved by the LA90D. To me it's a no brainer but then I'm a rational person.

What will you do if the retailer does nothing - right off your investment, make the huge mistake of getting involved with lawyers or find someone with real engineering experience to take a look and very probably identify and solve the problems.
 

notsodeadlizard

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
403
Likes
362
For whatever reason you refuse to see the reality of the situation. Topping 'seem' to create some really good designs but then fail to implement them into properly engineered products. Even basic engineering knowledge tells you dissipating heat needs to be be dealt with at the design stage. The stupidity of horizontal finning is a classic example; cramming everything into the smallest space possible is another and because no one has had the common sense to try to identify if component choice is another reason for failed units the forum is none the wiser as to why or how exactly the product is defective.

Surely it must be obvious that Apos know they have a turkey on their hands and that Topping is refusing to deal with the problem. The word that comes to mind with Topping is hubris, a very bad state of mind for a commercial company to have. A successful company will turn a negative into a positive by confronting the problem head on, admitting that the product/s have issues and deal with them, even if that means redesigning and using a different enclosure. All the reviews state what an exceptional performance is achieved by the LA90D. To me it's a no brainer but then I'm a rational person.

What will you do if the retailer does nothing - right off your investment, make the huge mistake of getting involved with lawyers or find someone with real engineering experience to take a look and very probably identify and solve the problems.
To be fair, the "performance" (which is mostly impressive THD shown in static test) is not so exceptional as it cold be.
If you have curiosity, soldering station and a bunch of not exceptional or expensive components, you can assembly Wolverine, for example, with 0.000095% THD at 80 watts on 8 ohm load and extremely clear distortion spectrum:
In general, all this is not even interesting, because by the depth of feedback or by the multiple feedbacks architecture in combination with their depths, someone can "squeeze out" very low THD.
It's been very boring for a long time.

Not only the sizes are suspicious and strange in this amplifier.
Unipolar power supply is absolutely strange.
Power supply is obviously underpowered and has unknown dynamic characteristics (this is obviously a switching power supply and it should be with absolutely wonderful and special properties that meet the needs of an amplifier with a top frequency of 20 kHz and a high slew rate), anyway it's as strange as possible.
All this is very strange, because in a good amplifier, powering is a very tangible part of its cost, and such a trick in a class AB amplifier is either a design error or a deliberate significant reduce of the cost of production.

There is no special "science" in all this, this is pure engineering, and this is quite obvious, and potential buyers simply must be warned about this because they are not engineers for the most part.
 

senuc

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2023
Messages
13
Likes
7
La90D is stopping selling on Taobao in China, the dealer just told me to wait , anyone know any message?
 

Down South

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
61
notsodeadlizard - power supply is key to equipment performance. I would also add for longevity a slow start module, an SS module is cheap and easy to integrate. TBF to Topping a lot of reviewers comment on an excellent sound.

senuc - that could be a good sign for prospective buyers but doesn't help existing punters.
 

ampguy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2022
Messages
306
Likes
178
Location
US
Isn't Apos just a reseller for Topping? I've had good service with them, email replies within a few days, replacement done in a week or two. Are you in the US? Apos is in Calif. I believe?
 

senuc

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2023
Messages
13
Likes
7
Apos不就是Topping的经销吗?我和他们有很好的服务,几天内回复电子邮件,两周内完成更换。你在美国吗?Apos在加拿大。我相信?
我在中国,我在 1 周前订购了 LA90D,但没有发货,所以我问了,他们告诉我“等待”
 

Down South

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
61
Just saw a link to a thread on reddit about Apos - (1) the company is a drop shipper/ (2) is really a cover for Shenzhen audio and (3) everything seems to ship from China. Lots of comments that this company takes forever to reply etc. etc.

Ali express is very easy to deal with and I've had some great buys BUT if something goes wrong or is defective don't expect a positive response. I've had one defective product which got zero response and one product the wrong size. Both cost a few Euros so decided to write them off rather than get involved in drawn out hassles. I now wouldn't buy anything expensive again.

As always - caveat emptor.

aphysically - think about a charge back on your card?
 

Sokel

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
6,096
Likes
6,146
Checked out a few usual shops and in all of them except @Audiophonics the status has changed from "in stock" to "pre order".
 

antcollinet

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2021
Messages
7,698
Likes
12,992
Location
UK/Cheshire
Just speaking as someone who has no real understanding of how amps are made... Intuitively, the idea that having 4 op amps under a black box is too hot causing significant failures means we should just put 2 instead seems unconvincing and I think other non-techies would think this way too. If instead they say 'no more black box + amazing new heatsink' I'd feel way better. Not that I know this is the issue w/ LA90 ofc.
Yeah - after 35 years in the electronics industry, if one of my team had come with the 4 (low power) devices to 2 devices to solve this thermal issue they would have become painfully aware of my views.

I've never seen the use of potting compound end well.

It has also failed in it's purpose of protecting the design, since one of our own (on his own) has reverse engineered the PA5 module to enable people to fix their own amps. I'd imagine that topping's competition with teams in a professional lab - would have been able to do the same in days.
 

Toku

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
2,432
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2,834
Location
Japan
A long time ago, when I was engaged in design, I used a monolithic IC like the one in the photo. The parts are arranged on a ceramic substrate and are thermally superior to those that are molded with resin and placed in a can.
 

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Teo

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
5
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0
It shoud be made like in the linked video, like vertigo sound make for all their discrete parts studio gears. Ceramic potting in a metal case
 

Bach

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
64
Likes
32
For whatever reason you refuse to see the reality of the situation. Topping 'seem' to create some really good designs but then fail to implement them into properly engineered products. Even basic engineering knowledge tells you dissipating heat needs to be be dealt with at the design stage. The stupidity of horizontal finning is a classic example; cramming everything into the smallest space possible is another and because no one has had the common sense to try to identify if component choice is another reason for failed units the forum is none the wiser as to why or how exactly the product is defective.

Surely it must be obvious that Apos know they have a turkey on their hands and that Topping is refusing to deal with the problem. The word that comes to mind with Topping is hubris, a very bad state of mind for a commercial company to have. A successful company will turn a negative into a positive by confronting the problem head on, admitting that the product/s have issues and deal with them, even if that means redesigning and using a different enclosure. All the reviews state what an exceptional performance is achieved by the LA90D. To me it's a no brainer but then I'm a rational person.

What will you do if the retailer does nothing - right off your investment, make the huge mistake of getting involved with lawyers or find someone with real engineering experience to take a look and very probably identify and solve the problems.
"The stupidity of horizontal finning is a classic example; cramming everything into the smallest space possible is another and because no one has had the common sense to try to identify if component choice is another reason for failed units the forum is none the wiser as to why or how exactly the product is defective."
Well, there are Pass amps, Classe amps and Krell amps with horizontal fins. Own experience with a Krell 150 and two Classe CAP 101: these functioned well, as the two LA90 ( so not he LA90 D) do now, with no problems at all.
 

aphysically

Member
Joined
May 1, 2022
Messages
67
Likes
54
Just saw a link to a thread on reddit about Apos - (1) the company is a drop shipper/ (2) is really a cover for Shenzhen audio and (3) everything seems to ship from China. Lots of comments that this company takes forever to reply etc. etc.

Ali express is very easy to deal with and I've had some great buys BUT if something goes wrong or is defective don't expect a positive response. I've had one defective product which got zero response and one product the wrong size. Both cost a few Euros so decided to write them off rather than get involved in drawn out hassles. I now wouldn't buy anything expensive again.

As always - caveat emptor.

aphysically - think about a charge back on your card?
Yeah I’ve seen the thread - I primarily ordered from Apos only because @JohnYang1997 mentioned that’s their authorized NA retailer if you want support in a thread about people having warranty woes with another Topping product. I’m not at the point of charging back at this time.

The news about LA90D stock changing to preorders is interesting - if they’re making a revision B (unknown?) you would think that weakens Apos refusal to just issue a refund for the multiple failed units.
 

Down South

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2022
Messages
137
Likes
61
"The stupidity of horizontal finning is a classic example; cramming everything into the smallest space possible is another and because no one has had the common sense to try to identify if component choice is another reason for failed units the forum is none the wiser as to why or how exactly the product is defective."
Well, there are Pass amps, Classe amps and Krell amps with horizontal fins. Own experience with a Krell 150 and two Classe CAP 101: these functioned well, as the two LA90 ( so not he LA90 D) do now, with no problems at all.
The fact remains that heat will rise and cold descend, this is basic physics and while the products you mention function well it doesn't detract from the fact that heat dissipates far more effectively with vertical finning.
 

Down South

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2022
Messages
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This morning I received an email from Shenzhenaudio.com with discounts, ending in 6 days - amongst other products - Topping LA90D @ $679 (discount $120) 2 year warranty, Free shipping, tax and import duty paid - I've sent an email to find out what shipping method I have to use to qualify.

You have to read the offers carefully. The language used is totally correct English and as anyone who really understands English it can be a very 'crafty' language. Caveat emptor. There are lots of products on offer which don't have a bad track record, worth taking a look.
 
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