Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

[RHO]

Using the Toslink, the transport must convert the digital signal into an optical signal and feed the Toslink cable.

So the digital signal stays digital. Yep, big problem. All the details are gone now.

If a digital signal gets compromised you don't get loss of detail or differences in bass or whatever. You get drop-outs or digital noise/static.

These "specialists" invent problems where there are none.

So, have you tested it blind? Can you still hear the difference?

Edit: You do know that both are the same signal, right? Only the connector is different.

 

[usern]

That agrees with my experienced differences before reading these threads so I mentioned it. Just replying to the previous poster with my experience. Take it leave it whatever.....even try it yourself or don't. I don't care less. Cheers

You are treating random posters from 20 years ago as a source of authority to confirm your bias.

Have you read your CD player manual yet? Are sampling rate and bit depth same for each output? Is the CD player doing digital volume control separately for each output?

 

[Veri]

Amirm's tests explains toslink & coax slightly worse than usb so that sort of confirms what's been found. No big deal or shocking "anti-science" there then. By coincidence the same as the "wizzard" well well.

There's no way you can hear minute jitter difference between inputs with levels being -150dB down. If you're hearing ANY difference, it's not jitter. Way, way too low to be audible.

 

[AndyLewis]

Don't know what it is - Amirm does the measuring. However no doubt his high grade equipment accomplishes both implementations better than mine & the original poster's. Coax & Toslink are not the same processes hence their different specifications so it's quite possible the coax is done better than the toslink on mine & others (quite a few per search results on the subject).
Toslink doesn't sound the same on the 2 different machines I own either (PD7300 & denon dcd600 latter sounds dull & muffled by comparison) despite having virtually identical specs. Cheap decks like that don't even fit coax hence it supports the cheap toslink option mentioned.
There you go....

 

[AndyLewis]

So what I am saying is the E50 using high grade test equipment is no doubt as close in all input performances as Amirm tested it to be - but the poster & I don't have pro grade equipment producing pro grade signals. Hence the reason for the very real likelihood of the apparent disparities between the two different types of digital implementation is the source equipment not the E50.

 

[FuzzTone]

I tried to match volumes and closed my eyes while I cycled across the inputs while I tried to confuse myself on which was which. It's the best I could do. However, the issue is easily noticeable on the toslink interface. I heard it immediately after first using it. I'm not 100% sure that spdif and USB interfaces sound exactly the same as each other, but if they don't then the difference is small enough to not be easily noticeable.

I thought of a few other possible explanations I thought of since first posting. Could the toslink cable be damaged, or the connectors be dirty? Would that cause an issue such as this?
Otherwise, could there be a ground loop on the USB and spdif interfaces that actually makes the audio sound subjectively *better*? Sounds unlikely, but plausible? I'll test listening to the same CD rip on my balanced headphones setup with the E50 to rule this out.

Well in my setup the Toslink sounds as good or better.Higher quality cables for both on the way, then reassess.

 

[madbrayniak]

Does anyone know if I can use my Shield TV remote to do volume control of this?

 

[AndyLewis]

Well in my setup the Toslink sounds as good or better.Higher quality cables for both on the way, then reassess.

At least you've got my point!
Amirms lab test signals are not our equipment!
I'll just use the better sounding coax. I don't test stuff for fun.
All this started just explaining to another guy why there may be a difference. Jesus - just relax folks....
I don't believe in snake oil, religion or bullshit of any sort...

 

[sjeesjie]

Are you "blind testing" this thread?Try reading it again. No one said that.

You said it yourself….
Well actually you quoted the wizard:
“DAC which converts the optical signal back into a digital signal”

 

[drfrink24]

My E50 has introduced what sounds like a ground-loop hum during some playback, some silence, but now 100% of the time during standby. When in standby, it buzzes loudly. Like so:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BUhF7HkpEIxfqNXNUanS0z7gx1IkSwFT/view?usp=sharing

The power supply I'm using is bad. Not E50's fault.

 

[Veri]

Yes yes all very sumptuous but I reckon it's time the off-topic conversation ends.. Topping E50 topic
Cheers

 

[Overseas]

Ok, let s say we listen to Byzantine muzic via E50. Relax, joke.

 

[decomo]

Is anyone using this not only DAC but as Preamp, too? I am trying to reduce the box count and wondering how good the preamp section it is.
I see that Topping also have dedicated Pre90 Preamp and if I have analog source then it would be good addition but if I use digital source only, then do I still benefit using dedicated Pre90 instead of one box solution like E50?

Thank you....

 

[AnalogSteph]

Is anyone using this not only DAC but as Preamp, too? I am trying to reduce the box count and wondering how good the preamp section it is.

What is the type of your power amplifier (notably its voltage gain) and speakers (notably their (actual) sensitivity)? You can do the math on where the DAC's noise floor is going to end up based on these parameters. Its output noise already beats a fair few decent analog preamps from the olden days though, as does distortion. Channel balance would not be an issue either. Generally speaking, a good DAC is the better preamp.

What you should potentially be looking out for is power-on/off pop noise, so I would wait for confirmation from owners that this is not an issue. Also, if you will be located right next to the DAC look out for a model with a physical volume knob, a few have appeared in this price class recently. A remote is a wear item, and I wouldn't want to be using it all the time.

 

[decomo]

What is the type of your power amplifier (notably its voltage gain) and speakers (notably their (actual) sensitivity)? You can do the math on where the DAC's noise floor is going to end up based on these parameters. Its output noise already beats a fair few decent analog preamps from the olden days though, as does distortion. Channel balance would not be an issue either. Generally speaking, a good DAC is the better preamp.

What you should potentially be looking out for is power-on/off pop noise, so I would wait for confirmation from owners that this is not an issue. Also, if you will be located right next to the DAC look out for a model with a physical volume knob, a few have appeared in this price class recently. A remote is a wear item, and I wouldn't want to be using it all the time.

Thank you, Steph.

I am thinking to get two units for two different set ups.

Set up #1) LXMini+2 Speakers driven by NAD CI980 multichannel pwr amplifier
Not sure about speaker sensitivity (can't find it from web somehow), and CI980's spec says, Input Sensitivity: 1.1V (ref. rated power), Voltage Gain: 33dB

Set up #2) Mackie HR824MK2 Active Studio Monitors
Input Impedance: 20k Balanced, 10k Unbalanced
Sensitivity (2.83V, 1 m): 91 dB SPL

 

[AndyLewis]

Is anyone using this not only DAC but as Preamp, too? I am trying to reduce the box count and wondering how good the preamp section it is.
I see that Topping also have dedicated Pre90 Preamp and if I have analog source then it would be good addition but if I use digital source only, then do I still benefit using dedicated Pre90 instead of one box solution like E50?

Thank you....

Hi -: yes after several re tests (can't do them blind before some rear ended retentive asks - as I have to change the connections myself!) using it as a pre amp sounds much better than the one in the 6000a I have into the power amp input.
This seems in line with the better specs dynamics etc of the DAC compared to the pretty good integrated's pre amp.
Using the E50 as a pre seems to give better defined bass notes as for a test on Amy Winehouse Lioness
Also fainter ambient sounds are clearer.
The 6000a loses note definition which particularly on those heavy double bass notes is easy to do!
Using the Coax of course - which also sounds clearer than the toslink output on my cd deck.
Forgot to mention also route my Wiim mini & TV via hdmi spiltter though there too - also sound better & clearer than the onboard dac of the 6000a. A bit fiddly but the better sound is well worth it.

Just my own direct experience & six ha'porth! Have fun! ; )

 

[AndyLewis]

What is the type of your power amplifier (notably its voltage gain) and speakers (notably their (actual) sensitivity)? You can do the math on where the DAC's noise floor is going to end up based on these parameters. Its output noise already beats a fair few decent analog preamps from the olden days though, as does distortion. Channel balance would not be an issue either. Generally speaking, a good DAC is the better preamp.

What you should potentially be looking out for is power-on/off pop noise, so I would wait for confirmation from owners that this is not an issue. Also, if you will be located right next to the DAC look out for a model with a physical volume knob, a few have appeared in this price class recently. A remote is a wear item, and I wouldn't want to be using it all the time.

As I mentioned below I've tried this with my 6000a in power amp mode & even with the volume therefore at full there is only the slightest click if you forget to do it in the right order as I have a couple if times (amp first then dac) - so seems very minimal in my case.

The remotes are standard for many toppings & only around $25/€ so maybe you could get a spare as a back up? Never used this firm though.....

TOPPING RC-22 Remote Control ForTopping DAC

Buy TOPPING RC-22 Remote Control ForTopping Decoder DAC on HiFiGo, you can enjoy a year warranty and the best after-sales service.

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Hopefully they'll (Topping) be designing them into uses for some time in other products yet?
; )

 

[peng]

Hello, I expected the singled ended output of the E50 would be 1/2 that of the balanced output but I found that wasn't the case. It was by ears, but then I measured the output using REW and found the levels were the same. Haven't measured them with a multimeter yet. Has anyone experienced the same, whether by ears or by measurements? Thank you.

 

[Toku]

Hello, I expected the singled ended output of the E50 would be 1/2 that of the balanced output but I found that wasn't the case. It was by ears, but then I measured the output using REW and found the levels were the same. Haven't measured them with a multimeter yet. Has anyone experienced the same, whether by ears or by measurements? Thank you.

The output of E50 is 2V for RCA and 4V for TRS. 2V/4V is a standard value for transmitting signals and will be at the same level in the final audio output. If you listen to it with your ears, it is of course the same level. There should be no difference. How did you measure the voltage?

 

[peng]

The output of E50 is 2V for RCA and 4V for TRS. 2V/4V is a standard value for transmitting signals and will be at the same level in the final audio output. If you listen to it with your ears, it is of course the same level. There should be no difference. How did you measure the voltage?

Thank you for replying, I realize the specs say that and as I said I expected it, and actually felt silly to even ask such a question. Again, I hadn't measured the output voltages yet but I was surprised because I know my ears can tell the difference if one way is 6 dB louder lol.. I had both RCA and XLR connected to my preamp and when I switch between the inputs (preamp), I didn't hear the one with the XLR input selected louder. I guess I must have messed up something in my connections or something else, will take proper measurements time permitting. By the way, I started playing with it because of its feature that allows both single ended and balanced output to be live simultaneously as it makes AB comparing two power amps easier by using just one selector switch. I set it up to AB my buckeye amp to a HK3390 receiver the other day using the both RCA/XLR on feature.