Topping E30 DAC Review

[WSM_2020]

Hi, folks! Have not you read this: https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/topping-e30-dac-review-entry-level-overachiever/ A very complimentary, sound, detailed and interesting review ...

 

[odyo]

Even iiWi Reviews (popular Youtube reviewer of Audio gear who has all high praises for the E30 in his review) heard the difference on his LS50. Maybe if the listening device is not resolving enough, you wont notice the difference?
View attachment 64761

TBH i also like the old version. Leaner and less busy, airier soundstage.

 

[half_dog]

Guys ... I really would like not hear, but with that post from Archimago (https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/06/musings-and-listening-on-absolute.html. Yamamoto2002; https://sourceforge.net/p/playpcmwin/wiki/AbsolutePolarityListeningTest/) I was able to tell apart which sample was. I'll be testing with music samples - a more realistic situation. The gear used was a Khadas Tone Board> JDS Atom> HD600 / HD650 / VE Monk Plus - the difference was audible with any of those heaphones.

More, according to Yamamoto2002, the noninverted sample should be perceived as higher pitch compared to inverted one, but I´m hearing opposite to it. Does KTD have its polarity inverted too?

@JohnYang1997 Could you tell with there is any (technical or not) reason to invert its polarity? I thought it was something inerent to AKM, but D10 has the same behavior and its an ESS chip... And John, maybe you can talk about this better, but if I feed a op amp using a inverting configuration the out signal will be inverted relative to input one, right? So, even those DACs with those characteristics, there are some amps with inverting config and I do not see many people complaning about it or there are some who find terrific...

As I told before, it´s audible to me in this specific case... Although I do not have enough experiments (and experience) to tell about other situatiuons...

 

[EGOiSTE]

Does disassembling the device and changing the RCA signal wire and soldering solve this reverse polarity issue?

 

[LMW]

I think they don't have it in stock and they don't say it to the customer. I was expecting quick shipping but waited 2 weeks and cancelled after that. Now waiting for the refund god knows when. Bad experience nonetheless. They should state that it's not in stock.

I just received an email from them saying that the Topping E30 is on its way. They gave a 12 digit canada post tracking number but assume that will only work once it arrives in Canada. Maybe E30 now in stock, unfortunate for your situation.

 

[yejun]

Does disassembling the device and changing the RCA signal wire and soldering solve this reverse polarity issue?

No, you cannot reverse unbalanced connection. Because one of them is ground, by reversing it you will mix left and right signal together at the best case, worst cast this will probably damage equipment. For balanced connection, it should be safe. I guess with balanced amp this can be reversed with a reversed RCA to XLR cable(ground of RCA connect to positive, signal connect to negative).

 

[samsa]

Guys ... I really would like not hear, but with that post from Archimago (https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/06/musings-and-listening-on-absolute.html. Yamamoto2002; https://sourceforge.net/p/playpcmwin/wiki/AbsolutePolarityListeningTest/) I was able to tell apart which sample was. I'll be testing with music samples - a more realistic situation. The gear used was a Khadas Tone Board> JDS Atom> HD600 / HD650 / VE Monk Plus - the difference was audible with any of those heaphones.

More, according to Yamamoto2002, the noninverted sample should be perceived as higher pitch compared to inverted one, but I´m hearing opposite to it. Does KTD have its polarity inverted too?

@JohnYang1997 Could you tell with there is any (technical or not) reason to invert its polarity? I thought it was something inerent to AKM, but D10 has the same behavior and its an ESS chip... And John, maybe you can talk about this better, but if I feed a op amp using a inverting configuration the out signal will be inverted relative to input one, right? So, even those DACs with those characteristics, there are some amps with inverting config and I do not see many people complaning about it or there are some who find terrific...

As I told before, it´s audible to me in this specific case... Although I do not have enough experiments (and experience) to tell about other situatiuons...

That was really interesting. The first few trials, I was really lousy at it. But eventually, I could hit 100% every time. That was with a pair of cheap earbuds plugged into my MacBook Pro (ABXTester.app).

 

[Illtrick]

Does anyone know the output impedance spec for the E30?

 

[odyo]

I guess those ''large soundstage'' reviews comes from inverted output. All reviewers saying E30 has large soundstage.

 

[samsa]

Here are the osx and linux commandline firmware updaters for the E30. As long as you don't interrupt the update process, they should be perfectly safe. But they are offered without any warranty.

Above all, don't go crying to Topping ...

 

[odyo]

?

 

[samsa]

People are being hysterical about this issue and unless proof is given, there is no reason to believe that the issue is audible.

This ABX test was a real eye-opener for me.

I don't think this is audible with speakers and real music (as opposed to test tones). But I wouldn't bet a lot of money on that proposition.

 

[half_dog]

Hey @samsa, according to @franspambot we have golden ears. High 5, dude o/

 

[samsa]

Have you tried this one, which was already posted? https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php

128 kbps CBR MP3s are not a suitable test of anything.

I suppose I could pay $5 and get access to the uncompressed .WAV files. But I'm not feeling in a generous mood.

 

[odyo]

Those "reviews" are anecdotes at best and are not taken seriously here as they hold no evidentiary value. More, a DAC review dwelling on "large soundstages" is a joke. People are being hysterical about this issue and unless proof is given, there is no reason to believe that the issue is audible. That these golden ears are popping up now that there is a known "issue" is ridiculous and, unfortunately, par for the course as these products bring in hordes of "subjectivists" to the site.

''Large soundstage'' was consistent trend amongst all reviews. Now seeing inverted samples it sounds leaner and have a feeling of larger soundstage. Have some respect mr. smart ass. Stop with that ''objectivist'' vs ''subjectivist'' fight in your mind. You are making yourself look stupid and offensive. We are here for information and discussion about the topic.

 

[NgxHS7]

Whatever the case(audible or not) Topping will no doubt lose customers because of this, and they may even have issues with existing customers. It's a real shame. I for one, hope it's not audible on my system. Changing polarity in my active speakers will be a PITA.

 

[samsa]

Changing polarity in my active speakers will be a PITA.

If you're using an external DAC with digital active speakers (and hence incurring an additional digital→analog→digital conversion) then I think you have bigger things to worry about.

 

[NgxHS7]

If you're using an external DAC with digital active speakers (and hence incurring an additional digital→analog→digital) conversion, then I think you have bigger things to worry about.

I'm not quite sure I follow.

 

[samsa]

I'm not quite sure I follow.

Digital active speakers (KEF LS50W, Dutch & Dutch 8c, Kii Three, ...) use a builtin ADC to convert their analog inputs to digital, perform various DSP operations, and then convert that back to analog using the builtin DAC.

If you hook up an external DAC to such speakers and feed them its analog output, then you are going

digital → analog → digital → analog

The quality of the resulting output is only as good as the weakest link in that (overly long) chain.

Wherever possible, digital active speakers should be fed a digital input.

 

[NgxHS7]

Digital active speakers (KEF LS50W, Dutch & Dutch 8c, Kii Three, ...) use a buitlin ADC to convert their analog inputs to digital, perform various DSP operations, and then convert that back to analog using the builtin DAC.

If you hook up an external DAC to such speakers and feed them its analog output, then you are going

digital → analog → digital → analog

The quality of the resulting output is only as good as the weakest link in that (overly long) chain.

Wherever possible, digital active speakers should be fed a digital input.

Oh I see. No no. I just have some Yamaha HS7s.