Topping E30 DAC Review

[samsa]

It's not completely wrong. It still applies to < Windows 10.

True, but not relevant to PCs 10 years from now.

I really don't see a reason why.. Apple was one of the first to adopt USB, so I don't see them dropping support any time soon. There will always be donges like you need already in a lot of cases anyway, so I don't see no issues at all.

Apple was the first to adopt Firewire ... and the first to abandon it. Apple was the first to adopt Thunderbolt and — current rumors about Apple Silicon seem to indicate — may abandon it in the next generation of Macs. They are relentless in abandoning yesterday's hot new thing in favor of tomorrow's. Since, henceforth, they will be making their own CPUs and motherboards, they will not be constrained by IBM or Intel as to what peripheral bus(es) are included on the motherboard. If there's something that looks better to them than USB, they will abandon USB in a heartbeat.

 

[somebodyelse]

It's not completely wrong. It still applies to < Windows 10.

Even Microsoft don't support Windows <10 now, unless you're corporate with a deep wallet. Since those versions aren't changing, the existing drivers should keep working.

Apple was the first to adopt Firewire ... and the first to abandon it. Apple was the first to adopt Thunderbolt and — current rumors about Apple Silicon seem to indicate — may abandon it in the next generation of Macs. They are relentless in abandoning yesterday's hot new thing in favor of tomorrow's. Since, henceforth, they will be making their own CPUs and motherboards, they will not be constrained by IBM or Intel as to what peripheral bus(es) are included on the motherboard. If there's something that looks better to them than USB, they will abandon USB in a heartbeat.

“Over a decade ago, Apple partnered with Intel to design and develop Thunderbolt, and today our customers enjoy the speed and flexibility it brings to every Mac. We remain committed to the future of Thunderbolt and will support it in Macs with Apple silicon,” commented an Apple spokesperson, in a statement to The Verge. I think Thunderbold 4 includes USB4 compatibility, so we should get at least a few years before they drop USB. Your general point is correct though - Apple are usually the first player to drop an established standard.

 

[voodooless]

Since all of those fast serial busses are basically extensions of PCI-e, USB will not go away any time soon, even the legacies. As I said before: you can always buy an adapter. They are ubiquitous and cheap..

As for Thunderbolt 4 things are still unclear, since Intel put some stuff in the standard that makes it seem like it's Intel CPU only.. We'll need to wait and see how Apple intends to adopt this. At least it is clear that they are committed...

 

[samsa]

As for Thunderbolt 4 things are still unclear, since Intel put some stuff in the standard that makes it seem like it's Intel CPU only.. We'll need to wait and see how Apple intends to adopt this. At least it is clear that they are committed...

It's not at all unclear.

Apple does not want to pay Intel a hefty licensing fee for every CPU that they ship. But, right now, they are heavily invested in Thunderbolt, with no clear alternative. As soon as a worthy replacement becomes available (even if they have to develop it themselves), they will drop Thunderbolt in a heartbeat.

As I said before: you can always buy an adapter.

I have a box full of Firewire peripherals that I can no longer use. Good luck finding an adapter ...

 

[somebodyelse]

Much as I'm up for a good port discussion, we're drifting severely off topic. If it's going to continue then can it happen in a new thread please?

 

[voodooless]

No problemo.

In any case: I noticed something when feeding 768/32 data on a Mac: sometimes the signal is quite distorted as if not all data is getting over the line in time.. reinserting the USB then solved the issue and from there on it’s stable. Might have something to do with the screen that acts as a USB hub and also needs to serve 4K through the same cable. Did anyone else ever have this issue? It’s a minor inconvenience really.

 

[welder]

Great sounding little DAC. Stacked with JDS Atom and I'm feeling that this is setup for life No distortion or other noises that I can hear, Atom totally transparent with no hum/noise even cranked to the limit on high gain setting. Thank you ASR for leading me to this setup

 

[vkvedam]

After having done a bit more listening to both these playing some Neil Young, Fleetwood Mac and Giogrio Moroder

CCA (Opt) > DAC > NX4DSD (Amp Only)

E30 - 3D and a bit more slam (Foot tapping)
D50 - Wider and analytical

Don't shoot me down as it's not a blind test. I am fairy certain that I would fail to spot the difference in a blind test unless I warm up myself just before the test to have everything super fresh in my memory. Both are equally detailed and super clean with black background

Whilst I type this the track keeps playing in the background on D50 and I couldn't tell that it's D50 and not E30. So I am really trying to split hair. I think if I were to do a speaker audition it becomes a lot more difficult I suppose. Treble is super grain free, mids are supposed to be where they need to be, funny thing is that I struggled to stop the music in the middle during switching, the reproduction is that good.

Just waiting for the Qutest to turn up so that I could compare.

 

[tankas]

Received my E30 today. Took 2 weeks, ordered from Shenzhen Audio webpage. No extra custom duties/taxes.
Really like it. Good upgrate from Grace Standart DAC. It's like a veil was removed from all my music. Easier to hear small details, guitar string picking etc.

 

[BDWoody]

I am fairly certain that I would fail to spot the difference in a blind test unless...

Yet, you report results you don't believe you could duplicate without peeking...

Even with everything being 'super fresh,' if you could point out those differences with controls, you would be the first.

 

[vkvedam]

Yet, you report results you don't believe you could duplicate without peeking...

Even with everything being 'super fresh,' if you could point out those differences with controls, you would be the first.

That's the ambition matey, whether I will succeed or not is a different question

 

[BDWoody]

That's the ambition matey, whether I will succeed or not is a different question

In all sincerity, I would love to see it happen. It would suddenly get very interesting.

Properly level matched DB/ABX.

That said, I would bet a good bottle of one's preferred adult beverage against it happening.*

*This bet does not apply to Chuck Norris.

 

[samsa]

Properly level matched DB/ABX.

How would one do that? Single-blind ABX test, I could carry out with the assistance of a buddy to switch the cables. But double-blind? That seems beyond what an ordinary home user could set up.

 

[BDWoody]

How would one do that? Single-blind ABX test, I could carry out with the assistance of a buddy to switch the cables. But double-blind? That seems beyond what an ordinary home user could set up.

If your buddy knows which is which, you've got the Clever Hans problem to deal with...

Edit: And yes...a truly valid test is a real pain in the ass to set up.

 

[samsa]

If your buddy knows which is which, you've got the Clever Hans problem to deal with...

That wasn't my question.

 

[BDWoody]

That wasn't my question.

Not beyond, but a pain.

Therein lies the problem for many. Without the test being valid, the results are approximately meaningless. Either go through the trouble, or stop making uncontrolled subjective claims. ' Close ' to valid isn't good enough if you expect to hear more than skepticism...

 

[samsa]

Not beyond, but a pain.

Pain or no pain, could you sketch a protocol for how one would actually do a double blind ABX test of a pair of DACs in a home environment?

 

[yejun]

That wasn't my question.

If A connect the cable, B do the switch then A take the test. As long as B can not see where the cable goes, it's double blind.

 

[samsa]

If A connect the cable, B do the switch then A take the test. As long as B can not see where the cable goes, it's double blind.

Sorry. I'm a little slow. Could you spell that out a little more fully?

For concreteness, let's say we have a PC as source, a pair of DACs ("A" and "B"), and an amplifier/active speakers as output. So there's a USB cable between the PC and the DAC and there's an RCA cable between the DAC and the amp. We want to be able to play "A" and "B" (and be able to switch between them). And then we want to be able to play "X", with neither the test subject nor his assistant knowing which X is.

What's the protocol for doing that?

 

[yejun]

Sorry. I'm a little slow. Could you spell that out a little more fully?

For concreteness, let's say we have a PC as source, a pair of DACs ("A" and "B"), and an amplifier/active speakers as output. So there's a USB cable between the PC and the DAC and there's an RCA cable between the DAC and the amp. We want to be able to play "A" and "B" (and be able to switch between them). And then we want to be able to play "X", with neither the test subject nor his assistant knowing which X is.

What's the protocol for doing that?

I think the easiest is let both dac playing and use an ab switch box.