Topping E30 DAC Review

[AndyLu]

not this way. Until a convincing mathematical model of hearing is not created, I will take into account the subjective listening and the available measurements both. I am just sharing my experience with E30 on of this thread about E30. If someone gets "stirred up" just by a fact that different people have different experiences then I feel sorry for his handicap.

Every brain, every psychological imprint, every ear shape, every interpretation, every emotion, every prejudice, every musical taste, every historical context, every culture differs per person. I am sure I forgot to mention a lot of other variables. A short term for this is 'subjectivity'.

Good luck to you waiting for your 'convincing mathematical model of hearing' taking all fore mentioned variables into account. I can tell you already that this mathematical model never will substantiate because of the simple fact that everybody hears and interprets differently.

The next best thing is to rely on objective measurements we know and trust. Of course it is not impossible to find more measurements in the future as more knowledge is gathered. Until then we have to deal with what we have and know now.

On a side note: I can't take your subjective/anecdotal opinion seriously when you compare the E30 to your grandma's tv box. That says more about your own subjective hidden agenda, past, psychologie, emotions, prejudices etc. than about the E30. It is a pity there is no 'convincing mathematical method' to filter such pointless subjectivity out of the equation.
Also moving the goalposts constantly in your posts and positing unsubstantiated anecdotal claims does not help much to inspire more confidence. It certainly does not help in having a constructive discussion about the subject at hand.

 

[voodooless]

A system that can confidently control the basic vocabulary of listening experience.
Not all Qvotrup's speeches suit me on 100%, so I don’t have Audio Note.

Can you state any of this in objective measurable terms? As far as I'm concerned you're just rephasing some subjective mumbo jumbo, and it doesn't get us anywhere..

 

[dir]

Every brain, every psychological imprint, every ear shape, every interpretation, every emotion, every prejudice, every musical taste, every historical context, every culture differs per person. I am sure I forgot to mention a lot of other variables. A short term for this is 'subjectivity'.

Good luck to you waiting for your 'convincing mathematical model of hearing' taking all fore mentioned variables into account. I can tell you already that this mathematical model never will substantiate because of the simple fact that everybody hears and interprets differently.

The next best thing is to rely on objective measurements we know and trust. Of course it is not impossible to find more measurements in the future as more knowledge is gathered. Until then we have to deal with what we have and know now.

On a side note: I can't take your subjective/anecdotal opinion seriously when you compare the E30 to your grandma's tv box. That says more about your own subjective hidden agenda, past, psychologie, emotions, prejudices etc. than about the E30. It is a pity there is no 'convincing mathematical method' to filter such pointless subjectivity out of the equation.
Also moving the goalposts constantly in your posts and positing unsubstantiated anecdotal claims does not help much to inspire more confidence. It certainly does not help in having a constructive discussion about the subject at hand.

Yes, the model is not yet expected, because for a long time there has been no investment in audio of such a level as at least in the 70s. Investors now have different priorities and we all know them.
I don't compare E30 with "grandma's tv box". I mean it sounds like mediaplayer for TV, not like Hi-Fi gear.

 

[dir]

Can you state any of this in objective measurable terms? As far as I'm concerned you're just rephasing some subjective mumbo jumbo, and it doesn't get us anywhere..

you can easy find it not only from the audiophile magazines. Lots of sound engineers operate terms like attack or soundstage, you name it

 

[AndyLu]

Yes, the model is not yet expected, because for a long time there has been no investment in audio of such a level as at least in the 70s. Investors now have different priorities and we all know them.
I don't compare E30 with "grandma's tv box". I mean it sounds like mediaplayer for TV, not like Hi-Fi gear.

You clearly did not understand a thing about what I said nor did you try to. Discussion is futile.... it will lead to nothing.
I rest my case. Have a nice day,

 

[dir]

Can you state any of this in objective measurable terms? As far as I'm concerned you're just rephasing some subjective mumbo jumbo, and it doesn't get us anywhere..

in fact, these are all your foolish allegories about mumbo jumbo - this is a frank conversation about yourself. Running around with pieces of paper or blind tests, you think you're the smartest. Well, put yourself a blind test on 100 tracks, after which you can not distinguish mp3 from the original. So what? Is this an occasion for lifetime listen to mp3 with distortions now? And while any experienced person in the recording industry will tell you that the some decisions are made by ear, not by digits. Everything is a little more complicated than a piece of paper for chi-fi sales.

 

[obwohl]

Sonconz LA-QXD1, Schiit Modius, SMSL M300 MkII are three obvious choices.

Nice, thank you. Which one is the best, accordingly to measurments? And which drivers of these companies are most likely to be available in ten years? For example, an RME-device would be likely enough for my purposes.

 

[solderdude]

of course i was looking such part of experiments, but I still see no correlation between my personal experience as listener. I swear, I'm not a cable beliver or whatever. I was happy when some device which I don't like as listener, it has bad measurements. It looks fairly as expected. But case with E30 is opposite way. Also i can remind other devices like Roland UA-M10 or SMSL Sanksrit Pro-B - all of them sounds dull despite good digits in measurements. I don’t know why - perhaps too deep feedback in the circuit. But in general, I was convinced that the measurement standards from the 50s do not guarantee a spectacular sound reproduction.

There can never be correlation between measurements and subjective listening impressions. I choose to trust the measurements and personal observations which do not resemble your findings

 

[jadenphan]

Hi all, I just got my E30 DAC, and wanted to check whether this is the new version 2004+ non-reversal polarity. I couldn't find such information from the box. All I can find is the bar code and serial number. If the first four numbers of the serial number starts with higher than 2004, does that mean it is the new version? Could anyone help me with this? Thank you!

 

[AndyLu]

Hi all, I just got my E30 DAC, and wanted to check whether this is the new version 2004+ non-reversal polarity. I couldn't find such information from the box. All I can find is the bar code and serial number. If the first four numbers of the serial number starts with higher than 2004, does that mean it is the new version? Could anyone help me with this? Thank you!

If the serial number starts with 2004 or higher than you indeed have the new version.

 

[jadenphan]

If the serial number starts with 2004 or higher than you indeed have the new version.

Thank you very much!!

 

[Thomas savage]

in fact, these are all your foolish allegories about mumbo jumbo - this is a frank conversation about yourself. Running around with pieces of paper or blind tests, you think you're the smartest. Well, put yourself a blind test on 100 tracks, after which you can not distinguish mp3 from the original. So what? Is this an occasion for lifetime listen to mp3 with distortions now? And while any experienced person in the recording industry will tell you that the some decisions are made by ear, not by digits. Everything is a little more complicated than a piece of paper for chi-fi sales.

The tone here is undesirable as is the term ' chi-fi ' .

There's hifi, high specification performance audio equipment and there's stuff that's not up to scratch.

 

[samsa]

Sonconz LA-QXD1, Schiit Modius, SMSL M300 MkII are three obvious choices.

Which one is the best, accordingly to measurments?

Each of those was a link to detailed measurements of the DAC in question. I suggest that you click on the links and read what is written there.

And which drivers of these companies are most likely to be available in ten years?

I have no idea. But, at the price, and considering the march of technology, I would not find that a relevant consideration.

 

[The Dragon]

Agree but it's not general rule of thumb though. I shall be getting a Qutest loaner, it will be pitted against D50 and E30. I always wanted to try Qutest so this will be interesting.

As previously mentioned I did quite a few auditions with Mojo-Poly and NX4DSD. Honestly I couldn't tell them apart after living with Mojo (4 years) and Poly (2 years) which I was super familiar with.

I will be interested in hearing your assessment.

 

[somebodyelse]

Nice, thank you. Which one is the best, accordingly to measurments? And which drivers of these companies are most likely to be available in ten years? For example, an RME-device would be likely enough for my purposes.

As @samsa said, follow the links for the measurements. Performance looks pretty similar to me, but feature set is slightly different and may be decisive. All are nominally UAC2 compatible I think, so drivers shouldn't be a problem in future (so long as Apple and MS keep supporting UAC2...)

 

[odyo]

I'm not seeing any complaints is this good dac for noisy environments ? Heavy gpu with coil whine, lots of high end pc parts, wifi antennas and shtty electricity. Not sure how clean my usb.

 

[samsa]

All are nominally UAC2 compatible I think, so drivers shouldn't be a problem in future (so long as Apple and MS keep supporting UAC2...)

UAC3 is backward compatible with UAC2 and UAC1 devices. 10 years from now, we will be on UACn, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that standard will still be backwards compatible with UAC2 devices.

I make no such bet that Apple machines will even have USB ports 10 years from now. They may very well have dropped USB for whatever is the next cool interface. Microsoft however, now that it finally supports UAC2, will still be supporting it 10 years from now (assuming they are still in the OS business 10 years from now).

 

[voodooless]

you can easy find it not only from the audiophile magazines. Lots of sound engineers operate terms like attack or soundstage, you name it

How are those objectively measurable things? What physical principles are underlying of these and in what way do the good DAC's improve on these vs the tin cans like the E30?

you think you're the smartest.

I'm just asking you some questions.. What's the problem with that? You've not given a straight answer to any of them as far as I'm concerned.. "I don't know" is also a valid answer you know, nothing wrong with that. I don't know many things either.

Well, put yourself a blind test on 100 tracks, after which you can not distinguish mp3 from the original. So what? Is this an occasion for lifetime listen to mp3 with distortions now? And while any experienced person in the recording industry will tell you that the some decisions are made by ear, not by digits. Everything is a little more complicated than a piece of paper for chi-fi sales.

I've not even talked about any blind tests.. I'm not even talking about mp3 (for that matter I'm pretty sure I'll have a very hard time picking out a 320kbit MP3 vs lossless in a bind test). I really don't see how my lack of blindly picking an mp3 should invalidate any of the questions I posed? Some decisions are made because of money, some because of x.. some because of y.. what of it?

I make no such bet that Apple machines will even have USB ports 10 years from now. They may very well have dropped USB for whatever is the next cool interface. Microsoft however, now that it finally supports UAC2, will still be supporting it 10 years from now (assuming they are still in the OS business 10 years from now).

I would actually make the reverse bet.. Because in the case of Linux and Mac, the drivers are fully baked in and operational regardless of the manufacturer, and it will be supported (and has been supported) for a long time. In case of Windows, you'll need to rely on the manufacturer to keep supporting newer OS'es unless Microsoft finally decides to bake it in as well. In that case you're good either way. USB will not be going away quickly.

 

[samsa]

I would actually make the reverse bet.. Because in the case of Linux and Mac, the drivers are fully baked in and operational regardless of the manufacturer, and it will be supported (and has been supported) for a long time. In case of Windows, you'll need to rely on the manufacturer to keep supporting newer OS'es unless Microsoft finally decides to bake it in as well. In that case you're good either way. USB will not be going away quickly.

No. That's completely wrong.

UAC2 is a Standard. Linux and MacOS support that Standard in their respective Kernels. Windows, until recently, did not. Which meant that users of previous Windows versions needed to go through the antiquated process of installing drivers.

But the current Windows 10 does support UAC2. Devices (like the E30) which adhere to the UAC2 Standard will automatically be supported by any OS that implements that Standard (which means MacOS, Linux and the latest Windows). And they will continue to be supported by the OS as long as it continues to implement UACn.

Knowing Apple, I would not be surprised at all if they dropped USB sometime in the next 10 years. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't. But Linux and Windows won't ...

 

[voodooless]

No. That's completely wrong.

It's not completely wrong. It still applies to < Windows 10.

UAC2 is a Standard. Linux and MacOS support that Standard in their respective Kernels. Windows, until recently, did not. Which meant that users of previous Windows versions needed to go through the antiquated process of installing drivers.

Well, that's my whole point, isn't it. I did not know however that Windows 10 finally has driverless UACx support. Took them long enough

Knowing Apple, I would not be surprised at all if they dropped USB sometime in the next 10 years. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't. But Linux and Windows won't ...

I really don't see a reason why.. Apple was one of the first to adopt USB, so I don't see them dropping support any time soon. There will always be donges like you need already in a lot of cases anyway, so I don't see no issues at all.