Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[G-rig]

Nice, may test out Audirvana as well before committing to Volumio, but it's fairly good with the tidal connect (just not free). At least it shows the RPI is a proven performer.

It's still a bit of gear with all these setups, wouldn't mind an Evo 150 and pair of bookshelves and that's it

 

[kchap]

I enjoy this setup:
Qobuz or ripped CDs -> MacBook Pro 13" -> Audirvana app -> UPnP -> RPi4 (no hat) -> USB-> RME ADI-2 FS DAC -> XLR -> Purifi amp -> Revel F328Be. No pops, dead silent operation, no distortion, nice 13" screen to view CD art and access any song on the planet in high resolution.

I tested connecting the MBP directly to the ADI-2 versus using RPi4 UPnP connection but I'm unable to detect a sound quality difference. No special power supply on the RPi4, just a standard $10 CanaKit 3.5A Raspberry Pi 4 Power Supply (USB-C).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TYQRXTK

I had not heard of Audirvana until I read this message. Do you pay a subscription fee or is there a base free version?

 

[G-rig]

I had not heard of Audirvana until I read this message. Do you pay a subscription fee or is there a base free version?

Just looked it up , doesn't seem free

Integrated Streaming Content HD Music Radios - Audirvāna - Online Radios

Enjoy over 65,000 Internet radio stations and as many podcasts, as well as the incredible high-resolution music catalogs of our HD streaming partners.

audirvana.com

If I don't get an MQA DAC then not sure if volumio is worth it, but it's half the price and Tidal is still good anyway. Would be good to get one that supports Qobuz connect (as Volumio doesn't for now) but probably won't buy that either I guess.

 

[G-rig]

Roon seems like the best, but isn't it US$700, lifetime subscription?

 

[kchap]

Just looked it up , doesn't seem free

Integrated Streaming Content HD Music Radios - Audirvāna - Online Radios

Enjoy over 65,000 Internet radio stations and as many podcasts, as well as the incredible high-resolution music catalogs of our HD streaming partners.

audirvana.com

If I don't get an MQA DAC then not sure if volumio is worth it, but it's half the price and Tidal is still good anyway. Would be good to get one that supports Qobuz connect (as Volumio doesn't for now) but probably won't buy that either I guess.

I use flac files and listen to web radio so I can use the free version of Volumio. I have played with MoOde - also free.

Now that Volumio is close to the official release of Version 3.xx - I'm using a release candidate - I prefer Volumio over MoOde. In 6 months time there might new release of MoOde which is better than Volumio. A good situation for me.

Edited

 

[G-rig]

Yeah i'm happy with Volumio without testing any others. Just seems to work, the web interface is neat and got the radio stations etc.
just need to plug my music on a drive into the pi4 , use that as a nas/streaming library. Beats leaving pc on and stuff
46$ a year (AUD) is probably worth it for Tidal connect (which is what i use), but no doubt free options for basic streaming.

I wouldn't mind giving Foobar some new attention too, shame they never got the uPNP stuff user friendly (tried it to no end in the past, where Plex just worked)

It looks like a bit of work:

Found a solution to Raspberry Pi and foobar2000 integration

For years I have used foobar2000 as my digital audio player of choice... It has some great DSP plugins, media library functionality and features (particularly when combined with foobarcon pro android app). Best in class IMO, and whilst my interest in Linux / Raspberry Pi has been growing over...

pinkfishmedia.net

 

[hwest]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D90SE flagship balanced USB DAC. It was sent to me by the company for testing and I believe costs US $899.

The D90SE comes in the same clothes as current class of Topping products which is just fine with me:

View attachment 135755

We have the usual inputs and outputs including Bluetooth:

View attachment 135756

The architecture here is based on ESS ES9038PRO DAC instead of AKM silicon. Hopefully this means better availability of parts and DACs.

Topping D90SE DAC Measurements
Out of box output voltage is our standard 4 volts but there is also a setting to adjust that to 5 volt (see test of that later). Let's start with USB input and balanced XLR output:

View attachment 135757

Oh wow! We have a record breaker here when it comes to SINAD:
View attachment 135759

View attachment 135760

The Audio Precision analyzer puts severe strain on getting such high numbers due to its own self-noise so I was surprised to see 123 dB limit broken. Distortion is down to an incredibly low -140 dB!

Switching to RCA output, we naturally lose some performance:

View attachment 135761

Noise level is kept to absolute minimum producing some of the best dynamic range numbers I have seen:

View attachment 135763

Temporarily switching to 5 volt output we get:

View attachment 135764

So not a major change but if you have an amp that can accept it, you can push your noise floor down a bit more. Remember, while distortions are hard to hear, hiss from speakers or headphones is not.

Intermodulation distortion (really the noise aspect) sets a new benchmark:

View attachment 135765

There was a time when DX3 Pro was the benchmark. See how much the D90SE beats it by. It is almost left in the dust!

Courtesy of resampling in ESS DAC, jitter is a forgotten word with either input:

View attachment 135766

Combined with the ultra noise floor, we can clearly resolve the low order bits of the 250Hz square wave at 24 bits! I had to remove the ASR logo to reveal them!

Linearity locked in and ran so perfectly, I had to scratch my eyes to believe it:

View attachment 135767

You have a choice of 7 filters and I was happy to see thee of them producing the correct filtering for 44.1 kHz sampling:

View attachment 135768

Attenuation was so good that I had to lower the bottom of the scale to show where they bottom out.

The only puzzler was THD+N versus frequency:

View attachment 135769

Seems like there is some kind of ESS signature going on with some filter setting. Getting the best performance required selecting filter #7 which has a bit of roll off in frequency response.

Multitone is nailed so hard that you could almost hear it nail screaming from being hit so hard:
View attachment 135770


Conclusions
It is 3:00am but I had to stay up and post this review. It is not every day that every barrier we have seen in DACs gets shattered to new levels. We are seeing extreme attention to every aspect of this design to squeeze this much performance out of this ESS DAC. Just when we though the race was over, here comes one more over achiever! Those of you who have made it a hobby to upgrade the latest and greatest, here is another one for you!

At the risk of stating the very obvious, it is my absolute pleasure to recommend the Topping D90SE.

Note: this is a new product. If you are not an early adopter type of person, you may want others to go before you. My testing is focused on performance only, not reliability or functionality.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Appreciate any donations using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Looks good, what do you're ears say about it? I have seen great specs that somehow don't translate into great sound, I can't speak to this particular system but do like ESS DAC's that are well implimented.

 

[G-rig]

So Topping D90SE or the RME Adi-2 FS?
Could get the RME off a mate for a good price I think. Was keen on something with MQA but may not matter if the base quality and detail is fantastic.

It's a Shame the toppings and similar look like an ugly set top box from the early 90s. Would prefer a volume knob too.

PS be interested to Know what Drop do to enhance the products in general

 

[Gradius]

So Topping D90SE or the RME Adi-2 FS?
Could get the RME off a mate for a good price I think. Was keen on something with MQA but may not matter if the base quality and detail is fantastic.

It's a Shame the toppings and similar look like an ugly set top box from the early 90s. Would prefer a volume knob too.

PS be interested to Know what Drop do to enhance the products in general

Could be Gustard X16 too. Almost half the price and no way to tell you the audio difference.

Forget mqa. Total scam.

 

[G-rig]

Could be Gustard X16 too. Almost half the price and no way to tell you the audio difference.

Forget mqa. Total scam.

Gustard looks cheap and probably quirky, but great reviews and spec.

I'll say I'll just grab my mates RME.

So if you don't have MQA decoding Tidal Will default to 48kHz max I believe.

 

[G-rig]

Mqa enabled DAC and MQA may sound better but not fussed now. I can see what people are in a huff about if their DAC doesn't support it (and probably never listened to it).

The general Level of quality and detail of the RME I'd be happy with, just like maniacs with cd players, you know it will be just right. (Still got boxes of them I ripped to FLAC). Gustard and others good for the money, SMSL was promising , the su-9 I got had the problem, an little pop turning on/off , drivers not Work at all on PC. Piece of junk.

 

[kchap]

Mqa enabled DAC and MQA may sound better but not fussed now. I can see what people are in a huff about if their DAC doesn't support it (and probably never listened to it).

The general Level of quality and detail of the RME I'd be happy with, just like maniacs with cd players, you know it will be just right. (Still got boxes of them I ripped to FLAC). Gustard and others good for the money, SMSL was promising , the su-9 I got had the problem, an little pop turning on/off , drivers not Work at all on PC. Piece of junk.

I can see the the RME with the AKM chip becoming the 'Garrad' of DACs. People will pay over odds to get hold of one. In a handmade Oak case, with Ebony and Rosewood inlay. The case costing10 times the price of the original DAC.

 

[G-rig]

I can see the the RME with the AKM chip becoming the 'Garrad' of DACs. People will pay over odds to get hold of one. In a handmade Oak case, with Ebony and Rosewood inlay. The case costing10 times the price of the original DAC.

Screw that, no audible sound difference, get whatever one is cheapest. Talking about the housing though, a mate has an Evo 150, it's awesome. Probably worth it as an end game, better than stuffing around with a lot of other crap

 

[MaximXXL]

OK, the restaurant is closed after taking this request:

Amir, this is my first post on the forum and I wanted to thank you for the great job you are doing - it breaks stereotypes!
I have a question about the measurement technique. So, we see excellent jitter that Topping D90SE demonstrates when receiving a signal at any of its inputs (usb, coax, toslink). Q: does the output jitter depend on the input jitter? If "yes", then it is logical to supplement the measurement technique in order to obtain the input jitter change factor, isn't it? Ideally, it will be 0, of course. I ask you to forgive me in advance if my question is technically illiterate - I'm not an engineer, sorry.

 

[Headphonista]

OK about the MQA part, I figured out what is happening but this does not mean what is happening is correct or incorrect. I simply do not know.

So let me explain what is happening now. In Kandace Springs "The Women Who Raised Me". Everything works to plan. When all the appropriate settings are done, we get MQA and a 96Khz sample rate. When we choose HiFi, the sample rate drops and the screen displays PCM as I would expect. The settings of pass through seems to not matter. So fine everything good so far.

Now when we choose the Stacey Kent's" I Know I Dream" which is also listed as Master according to Tidal, With the MQA settings, we get MQA on the D90SE screen but we only get a sample rate of 44.1. Now when we try to switch to PCM by choosing the settings that worked with Kandace Spring's album, the screen retains MQA. Even when we choose choose different Passthrough settings, the same data is listed on the screen of the D90SE.

So what is the deal, is Stacey's Kent's album a fake MQA? Or is it a variation of MQA? If it is the latter why does the not D90SE respond properly. I should get PCM with some setting of the four possible. I don't know if the issue is with Tidal or it is with the Topping D90SE. Until someone else has another MQA decoder that is working properly, I won't know.

Thus far, either Tidal's app ( fully updated Sept 18 2021) is messed up or The D90SE is not responding properly to the MQA or Non MQA instructions. in the stream.

As for the USB issues, I have spent hours trying to decipher what is going on. These are my conclusions so far and still not totally conclusive. It appears that on my particular PC, the quality of the USB output is different. When I use the ports on the MB header, I get more dropouts. I get superior results by using a port through the USB headers and through an extending cable to the rear of the PC. I have had results the opposite on printers before where the most trouble free data transmission was directly from the headers as compared to an extension of expansion card. I cannot conclude but the D90SE I have is exhibiting USB issues where previously my Khadas Tone Board and another DAC using an XMOS and XING adapter had no issues.

For my sample, I am seeing two issues what is causing it, I don't know.

Hi ... FYI, I get very similar issues with the SMSL M500.

Described here.

 

[G-rig]

I just assumed the maximum is 44.1 or 48kHz on any non-mqa DAC?

I was keen on MQA as it sounds good on my ifi zen DAC, however since hooking up the RME I don't care so much

 

[Headphonista]

The Tidal desktop app is a “decoder” and can do the “first unfold” to either 88.1 or 96 kHz. Does your RME show you the input frequency?

The “full decoder” implemented in the XMOS chips of SMSL and Topping DACs is supposed to be support both the first and a second unfold, if there is any additional data encoded … but in fact for many 44.1/88.2 tracks it seems to be failing somehow.

 

[G-rig]

is a “decoder” and can do the “first unfold” to either 88.1 or 96 kHz. Does your RME show you the input frequency?

The “full decoder” implemented in the XMOS chips of SMSL and Topping DACs is supposed to be support both the first and a second unfold, if there is any additional data encoded … but in fact for many 44.1

Hi mate, got a bit busy to reply earlier but it was enough motivation to connect to PC and test it out.
any track in particular? The first thing I tried is saying 48kHz on Tidal straight from the PC. I got it for use with the active monitor setup with RPi4 over ethernet which is sounding great (still 48 i think). Will test a few tracks ta. ps. I've heard the headphone amp in the ADI-2 is decent, just comparing to my Matrix M-stage (a THX 789 would be great if the RME was in the same room ).

 

[Headphonista]

Hi mate, got a bit busy to reply earlier but it was enough motivation to connect to PC and test it out.
any track in particular? The first thing I tried is saying 48kHz on Tidal straight from the PC. I got it for use with the active monitor setup with RPi4 over ethernet which is sounding great (still 48 i think). Will test a few tracks ta. ps. I've heard the headphone amp in the ADI-2 is decent, just comparing to my Matrix M-stage (a THX 789 would be great

Hi,

For example, all the tracks on the Eagles "The Studio Albums 1972-1979” compilation are 48/96/192. An MQA DAC can decode those to 192 kHz (two “unfolds”) and sounds great. When connected to a regular non-MQA DAC the app itself is able to do one unfold and outputs 96 kHz. This also sounds great.

Strangely the exact same tracks on the individual studio albums are 44.1/88.2 … maybe some mistake by the studio? The app is able to do one unfold to 88.2 kHz and send that to a non-MQA DAC, and sounds great. Playing through an MQA full decoder DAC should be able to do at least one unfold, but it doesn’t. The output is 44.1 and (to me) it sounds noticeably bad.

I have confirmed this issue on my SMSL M500 and curious to know if this is an issue with all the SMSL and Topping DACs. I suspect it is.

 

[Rottmannash]

Hi,

For example, all the tracks on the Eagles "The Studio Albums 1972-1979” compilation are 48/96/192. An MQA DAC can decode those to 192 kHz (two “unfolds”) and sounds great. When connected to a regular non-MQA DAC the app itself is able to do one unfold and outputs 96 kHz. This also sounds great.

Strangely the exact same tracks on the individual studio albums are 44.1/88.2 … maybe some mistake by the studio? The app is able to do one unfold to 88.2 kHz and send that to a non-MQA DAC, and sounds great. Playing through an MQA full decoder DAC should be able to do at least one unfold, but it doesn’t. The output is 44.1 and (to me) it sounds noticeably bad.

I have confirmed this issue on my SMSL M500 and curious to know if this is an issue with all the Chi-Fi DACs. I suspect it is.

"Chi-fi" again?? Please stop using that term.