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Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

rlwings said:
This is awesome! Thank you very much for doing it! - So for us less technical folk would you say that the best filter to use is #7 or am I missing something here? (John seems to say #3 is best).
Click to expand...
I'd be interested in hearing John's reasoning behind recommending #3. I did not show the plots for #3, and, it looks like my ZIP file is corrupted (sorry, will fix soon).

IIRC, there was quite a bit more pre-ringing in #3 than #7. I would say that the frequency response and extension is the best for #3, but my hypothesis is that time-domain differences have a greater impact on perceived sound quality than small differences in amplitude response, especially above 12 kHz. I could be totally wrong, but this seems to correlate well with personal subjective preferences.

Edit: With my zip file now working, here's what I see for Mode 3 on the D90SE:


D90SE - Mode 3.png


So, definitely more pre and post-ringing than Mode 7. Again, I confess that I have only hypothesised that there's a correlation between pre/post-ringing and personal preference. I'd love to study this further, but on paper, Mode 7 / H-FAST "looks" better. :)
 
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In review https://translate.google.com/transl....ptt.cc/bbs/Headphone/M.1624709833.A.2B5.html
author wrote,
"On the analog side, the DAC is replaced by an ESS9038PRO. All 11 OPA1612s are used. The 1612 of the upper and lower clamp 9038 is used for linear voltage stabilization, instead of LDO ES9311 provides AVCC_R/AVCC_L 3.3V. The middle eight 1612s use 8CH respectively as I/V and then connect in parallel. Increase the output current and win loudly (I/V is not the same as the male board) The leftmost 1612 is used as LPF, which is responsible for converting to single-ended RCA, which means that the balanced terminal is I/V and straight out of XLR"

Hmm, XLR OUT don't have buffers and LPF ?
why?
 
Evgeniy said:
In review https://translate.google.com/transl....ptt.cc/bbs/Headphone/M.1624709833.A.2B5.html
author wrote,
"On the analog side, the DAC is replaced by an ESS9038PRO. All 11 OPA1612s are used. The 1612 of the upper and lower clamp 9038 is used for linear voltage stabilization, instead of LDO ES9311 provides AVCC_R/AVCC_L 3.3V. The middle eight 1612s use 8CH respectively as I/V and then connect in parallel. Increase the output current and win loudly (I/V is not the same as the male board) The leftmost 1612 is used as LPF, which is responsible for converting to single-ended RCA, which means that the balanced terminal is I/V and straight out of XLR"

Hmm, XLR OUT don't have buffers and LPF ?
why?
Click to expand...
What does this mean exactly?
 
It means broken translation. Apart from that John answered that earlier: the I/V stage is the 'buffer', which isn't needed additionally in this concept of the D90SE.
 
dsnyder0cnn said:
I'd be interested in hearing John's reasoning behind recommending #3. I did not show the plots for #3, and, it looks like my ZIP file is corrupted (sorry, will fix soon).

IIRC, there was quite a bit more pre-ringing in #3 than #7. I would say that the frequency response and extension is the best for #3, but my hypothesis is that time-domain differences have a greater impact on perceived sound quality than small differences in amplitude response, especially above 12 kHz. I could be totally wrong, but this seems to correlate well with personal subjective preferences.

Edit: With my zip file now working, here's what I see for Mode 3 on the D90SE:


View attachment 155428

So, definitely more pre and post-ringing than Mode 7. Again, I confess that I have only hypothesised that there's a correlation between pre/post-ringing and personal preference. I'd love to study this further, but on paper, Mode 7 / H-FAST "looks" better. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks! - Hey did you did you see this yet? > https://archimago.blogspot.com/2021/09/measurements-review-topping-d90se-dac.html?m=1

According to this guy filter #5 would be best, lol... So confusing for us guys that just want to be told which filter to use. :)
 
dsnyder0cnn said:
I did. He favors frequency extension, but I maintain that time-domain response contributes more to realism...especially for old guys like me who can't hear past 14 kHz anyway. :)
Click to expand...
Makes sense, thanks. I wonder if choosing a certain filter would make a difference to guys like us that use Dirac room correction which claims to correct the time domain\impulse response. - Would choosing one filter over another be better for calibrating with Dirac algorithms? - Hmm...
 
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dsnyder0cnn said:
I'd be interested in hearing John's reasoning behind recommending #3. I did not show the plots for #3, and, it looks like my ZIP file is corrupted (sorry, will fix soon).

IIRC, there was quite a bit more pre-ringing in #3 than #7. I would say that the frequency response and extension is the best for #3, but my hypothesis is that time-domain differences have a greater impact on perceived sound quality than small differences in amplitude response, especially above 12 kHz. I could be totally wrong, but this seems to correlate well with personal subjective preferences.

Edit: With my zip file now working, here's what I see for Mode 3 on the D90SE:


View attachment 155428

So, definitely more pre and post-ringing than Mode 7. Again, I confess that I have only hypothesised that there's a correlation between pre/post-ringing and personal preference. I'd love to study this further, but on paper, Mode 7 / H-FAST "looks" bette
dsnyder0cnn said:
I did. He favors frequency extension, but I maintain that time-domain response contributes more to realism...especially for old guys like me who can't hear past 14 kHz anyway. :)

Sorry for being so annoying but I really want to choose the best filter for the time-domain. I am not well versed in electronic testing and reading charts so I am a bit unclear as to which filter you are suggesting as the best time-domain filter... Would you be kind enough and tell me which number it is... Thank you very much! :)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I would like to see the multi tone test with the USB, optical, and coax individually to see the difference.
 
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rlwings said:
Makes sense, thanks. I wonder if choosing a certain filter would make a difference to guys like us that use Dirac room correction which claims to correct the time domain\impulse response. - Would choosing one filter over another be better for calibrating with Dirac algorithms? - Hmm...
Click to expand...
Good question. Fortunately (or not), time-domain errors with loudspeakers in a room tend to be an order of magnitude or so greater than what we're seeing with DAC filters, so filter choice when calibrating with Dirac is unlikely to matter. If it were me, I'd still choose the DAC filter with the least pre-ringing. :)
 
Eddy H. said:
I would like to see the multi tone text with the USB, optical, and coax individually to see the difference.
Click to expand...
Yeah. @amirm didn't say which input he used for the multi-tone test, but I assume it was USB. I would not expect to see a significant difference from the other inputs.
 
dsnyder0cnn said:
Good question. Fortunately (or not), time-domain errors with loudspeakers in a room tend to be an order of magnitude or so greater than what we're seeing with DAC filters, so filter choice when calibrating with Dirac is unlikely to matter. If it were me, I'd still choose the DAC filter with the least per-ringing. :)
Click to expand...
So which filter did you find had the least per-ringing? - (Sorry, I am not good at understanding graphs and tech stuff, lol)
 
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dsnyder0cnn said:
Mode 7 on the D90SE. H-FAST is the equivalent on the Gustard X16.
Click to expand...
Ok, so I guess I will use mode 7 on the D90SE from now on to calibrate using Dirac in order to get the least per-ringing as this is the more likely perceivable component over frequency accuracy. Thanks! - I did a hearing test last night and apparently I can't hear anything past 12,000khz!
 
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