Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

[navin]

It needs to be completely redesigned. You can have very high power at the transformer, but if you don't know how to deliver it to the chip that works with switching signals, it's as if it doesn't exist. You can put a 10,000uF electrolytic capacitor that will do a worse job than a 10uF ceramic placed near the chip pins. I studied 8 DACs from Topping and SMSL and saw how the Chinese think about the whole scheme. Fortunately, the new models, from 2023, started to take into account what I talked about and the sound is better of course. Probably they also realized these things.

Which would be the more obvious upgrade?

I'd prefer to spend as little as needed and the Octo DAC at $700 is much cheaper than the D400EX (at $1100).

Or I could wait for more options.

 

[777]

Which would be the more obvious upgrade?

I'd prefer to spend as little as needed and the Octo DAC at $700 is much cheaper than the D400EX (at $1100).

Or I could wait for more options.

I have both. None are worth the money. I was most satisfied with the SMSL DL200. The new es9039 series is fabulous.

 

[777]

SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

Apparently SMSL has a new product called the DL200 that is selling on AliExpress for 190 USD shipped. I thought that the C200 was ridiculous value but this seems... even better, its got apparently twice the HPA power, newer chip, bigger display, and basically all the technical specs you you...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[navin]

I have both. None are worth the money. I was most satisfied with the SMSL DL200. The new es9039 series is fabulous.

The 9039Q2M version?

This one?

https://www.amazon.com/ES9039Q2M-Headphone-Amplifier-Balanced-Dualmode/dp/B0CCY5J2GQ

 

[navin]

SMSL DL200 the best ever value DAC/AMP?

Apparently SMSL has a new product called the DL200 that is selling on AliExpress for 190 USD shipped. I thought that the C200 was ridiculous value but this seems... even better, its got apparently twice the HPA power, newer chip, bigger display, and basically all the technical specs you you...

www.audiosciencereview.com

What about the SU-9 Pro? It has the 9039 as well.

 

[777]

The 9039Q2M version?

This one?

https://www.amazon.com/ES9039Q2M-Headphone-Amplifier-Balanced-Dualmode/dp/B0CCY5J2GQ

Yes. Excellent sound, almost like highend DACs.

 

[777]

What about the SU-9 Pro? It has the 9039 as well.

I didn't have it, I don't know it, I can't express any opinion about it.

 

[DHT 845]

What do you recommend we do to fix this? I am not taking the DAC apart and digging around the chips. I just want to enjoy my music. Thanks.

Let me remind you that you just wanted to dig around XMOS and opamps. Anyway D70s is perfect DAC, you would have much better results upgrading AVM A5.2 amplifier for Topping LA90 descrete instead of changing or "upgrading" this DAC (IMHO) unless you want to add some specific kind od distortion that you miss. In that case SMSL makes DACs with tone color enhancements like "tube", "rich" etc.

 

[Jimster480]

Have you driven cars before pollution standards? did you notice that even though they have less power, they drive more sportily? the new ones have hundreds of horsepower but behave like a tired grandma. You know why ? Because the pollution rules strangle the engine, don't let it suddenly put all the power to the wheel. Due to pollution regulations, the power is put to the wheel gradually. It is the same with DACs. To obtain very small distortions in static measurements and low noise, manufacturers use power supplies with high output impedance, with high resistance PCB routes. High impedance limits sudden current increases, tempers them and this leads to a flat, uninteresting sound. No one hears distortions smaller than 0.1%, but instead feels the linear distortions generated by the current limitations that lead to amplitude drops when playing music. This thing is not found in the static signals with which the measurements are

I'm sorry but I'm actually a car guy and this analogy doesn't work at all. While emissions components definitely restricted the horsepower and torque output of the engines, that is actually reducing measured performance.
The reason why modern cars which supposedly make more horsepower are actually slower than old cars before emission standards is due to engine designs and the government mandates that require gas mileage to be over 30, which means that most cars are using CVTs or very long gears.

When you look at the performance of a modern engine, you will notice that while they are hitting a peak number specifically, which is what they are reporting as horsepower, the actual performance of the engine depends on the power under the curve, which while building tiny, gas-efficient engines, you are not going to have meaty power bands.
Most of the engines before the days of the modern emission standards were much larger in the sense that many of the cars today that have i4s had V6s or even V8s and the overall general use of V8s was quite high and as such they had very nice power bands that you do not achieve with 1.8 liter naturally aspirated 4Cylinders.

Now when you are comparing this to a DAC that actually has great measured performance that actually tops the charts, you are not comparing the same thing at all because one is reducing measured performance and the other is not.
In the case of the DAC, you are actually measuring the output of the DAC and the output is perfect for what the DAC is supposed to do. Unlike measuring horsepower and torque and power bands and looking at lower numbers on the power bands and shorter power bands with less torque in order to achieve more gas mileage.

Are you saying that the D70s power supply needs to be changed?


Thanks. That's all I needed. I got the D70s because it fit my budget and was available at that time.

What do you recommend we do to fix this? I am not taking the DAC apart and digging around the chips. I just want to enjoy my music. Thanks.

Is there a DAC in your mind that fits the bill? The SMSL D400EX with AK4191 + dual AK4499EX or the Topping D70 Octo 8-chip DAC? or some R-2R DAC?

The performance of this DAC literally tops the chart and nothing that is produced after this will have any sonic benefits as long as human hearing remains limited as it is today.
There is nothing about this that is broken at all and absolutely nothing needs to be fixed. You can simply lower the volume by two decibels as you see is done here in the test in order to make the voltage the standard voltage that most things like to receive.

 

[staticV3]

First of all: the power supply is not enough at chip pins and op-amps. The impedance of the power supply at the chips and op-amps is too high. That fact is not too good for impact of the sound. THD+N is very good because the signal is constant. If you change the amplitude of the signal, things are going crazy. The sound loses its impact, lacks depth, lacks the hammer blow. So, lower impedance is needed at the power supply pins of the chip.

Fortunately, the new models, from 2023, started to take into account what I talked about and the sound is better of course. Probably they also realized these things.

I have both. None are worth the money. I was most satisfied with the SMSL DL200. The new es9039 series is fabulous.

Yes. Excellent sound, almost like highend DACs.

And do you have receipts to back up those lofty claims, or are you just playing make believe here?

 

[Jimster480]

Let me remind you that you just wanted to dig around XMOS and opamps. Anyway D70s is perfect DAC, you would have much better results upgrading AVM A5.2 amplifier for Topping LA90 descrete instead of changing or "upgrading" this DAC (IMHO) unless you want to add some specific kind od distortion that you miss. In that case SMSL makes DACs with tone color enhancements like "tube", "rich" etc.

I believe topping did this as well with the new DX7 and I think also the DX5.

 

[navin]

Let me remind you that you just wanted to dig around XMOS and opamps. Anyway D70s is perfect DAC, you would have much better results upgrading AVM A5.2 amplifier for Topping LA90 descrete instead of changing or "upgrading" this DAC (IMHO) unless you want to add some specific kind od distortion that you miss. In that case SMSL makes DACs with tone color enhancements like "tube", "rich" etc.

The AVM amplifier has a "trick" that most other amplifiers do not have. I can set each of the 5 inputs to variable and fixed. Hence, I can use the fixed inputs so that an AVR drives them and can set the sensitivity for each fixed input. I can also set EQ (Bass and Treble controls) for each input, but I don't need this feature.

For example:
input 1: fixed 1V sensitivity. source Denon 6200WA AVR. The Denon then powers my center and surrounds the AVM set (integrated and power) drive my front left and right speakers.
input 2: variable. source AVM CD player (2-channel sound)
input 3: variable. source Topping D70s (2-channel sound)
input 4: fixed. Input BT receiver set at maximum sensitivity (I think this is 300mV) so I can stream from my phone (2-channel sound)

When I first got the AVM, just for fun, I connected my Marantz 7013 AVR to my AVM's 5th input (set to fixed). I wanted to see if the sensitivity of the Marantz was the same as the Denon (since they came from the same stable). Currently, the 5th input on my AVM is unused. That reminds me, I can bypass the unused inputs so when I rotate the selector only the used inputs are chosen.

My AVM integrated also serves as a trigger for my AVM power amps.

 

[DHT 845]

Yes. Excellent sound, almost like highend DACs.

Hi mr decoupling
What are "hi-end" DACs that are better sounding than D70s?
Audio Note DAC 5 or Lampizator Horizon?

 

[Veri]

Yes. Excellent sound, almost like highend DACs.

Haha. "Almost".......?

 

[DHT 845]

Haha. "Almost".......?

You know, that is "you pay 20x more for 5% improvement" theory

 

[Veri]

You know, that is "you pay 20x more for 5% improvement" theory

Yes well, i too would like to "Imagine" paying 90/95% more for something so called high-end, in fact sounds more solid/better-er.
Jury's still out, though.

 

[777]

Hi mr decoupling
What are "hi-end" DACs that are better sounding than D70s?
Audio Note DAC 5 or Lampizator Horizon?

no... I compare with Weiss and Rockna.

 

[777]

Haha. "Almost".......?

Almost.

 

[DHT 845]

no... I compare with Weiss and Rockna.

Now I get it.
Weiss was tested here, no comments.

Weiss DAC501 Streamer and DAC Review

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of the Weiss DAC501 balanced DAC, headphone amp and network renderer. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $9995. The case is fine enough but not nearly so for what it costs. Stamped steel should have no place in this price...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Rockna, hmmm, some manufacture from Romania, come on, don't make me laugh.

 

[staticV3]

Now I get it.
Weiss was tested here, no comments.

Weiss DAC501 Streamer and DAC Review

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of the Weiss DAC501 balanced DAC, headphone amp and network renderer. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $9995. The case is fine enough but not nearly so for what it costs. Stamped steel should have no place in this price...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Rockna, hmmm, some manufacture from Romania, come on, don't make me laugh.

Here are some more measurements for your enjoyment:

Weiss DAC204 Measurements - GoldenSound

The Weiss DAC204 is much more affordable than the 502, but unfortunately the surprisingly mediocre performance makes it tough to justify.

goldensound.audio

Rockna Wavedream Signature Balanced Measurements - GoldenSound

Technical measurements of the Rockna Wavedream Signature Balanced discrete R2R DAC. A top of the line dac with a lot to offer.

goldensound.audio