Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

[Jimster480]

Here are some more measurements for your enjoyment:

Weiss DAC204 Measurements - GoldenSound

The Weiss DAC204 is much more affordable than the 502, but unfortunately the surprisingly mediocre performance makes it tough to justify.

goldensound.audio

Rockna Wavedream Signature Balanced Measurements - GoldenSound

Technical measurements of the Rockna Wavedream Signature Balanced discrete R2R DAC. A top of the line dac with a lot to offer.

goldensound.audio

Your post completely validates what we were talking about in regards to this poster. The reality is that one of these DACs are actually high-end and compare with the one in the thread here, and the other one is barely to the threshold of what would be inaudible with most music.

I think I have actually listened to the second one through some head-fi audition and I wasn't impressed with it.

 

[navin]

no... I compare with Weiss and Rockna.

Ok, I am a newbie, so please be kind. Are you saying that the $200 SMSL DL200 is closer in sound to the $10,000 Weiss DAC501 than the D70s, D70 Octo, or D400EX?

 

[Angsty]

Ok, I am a newbie, so please be kind. Are you saying that the $200 SMSL DL200 is closer in sound to the $10,000 Weiss DAC501 than the D70s, D70 Octo, or D400EX?

Hi, navin - welcome to ASR. The truth is that they will all likely sound the same but will differ in features.

 

[navin]

Hi, navin - welcome to ASR. The truth is that they will all likely sound the same but will differ in features.

Thanks for the welcome. Much appreciated.

Features? All DACs do is convert Digital to Analog. Is there something else? I didn't investigate any features on my D70s. I connected my WiiM Pro Plus to the Coax SPDIF input on the DAC and then connected the RCA analog inputs to my Amplifier. My amplifier has XLR inputs, and the D70s has XLR (balanced) outputs, but I don't have XLR cables, and the distance is only 1m (cable length), so I figured XLR would not offer much of an advantage over RCA (unbalanced).

I am a simple person with old, damaged ears (I was in a rock band some five decades ago). I see no need to rely on measurements unless the sound is so bad that you need measurements to help you figure out what's wrong. I am told ASR is very measurement-focused, but I don't think my basic system, average living room, and abused ears could tell the difference if the SINAD was -120db or -130db.

Thanks again.

 

[Killingbeans]

Features? All DACs do is convert Digital to Analog. Is there something else?

Knobs, buttons, inputs, outputs, displays, looks, silly filter options and what have you.

Most likely @777 is lost in spiral of cognitive bias. I bet he/she'd fail at telling a difference between the SMSL and the Weiss, if he/she was really put to the test.

 

[777]

Rockna, hmmm, some manufacture from Romania, come on, don't make me laugh.

Are you still laughing about Rockna ? Do you think it looks like Topping D70s ?

 

[staticV3]

Are you still laughing about Rockna ?

Yes, even more actually. All that expensive hardware to produce this garbage:


Such a waste of resources...

 

[Veri]

Yes, even more actually. All that expensive hardware to produce this garbage:
View attachment 330093 View attachment 330092

Eww.

 

[777]

Yes, even more actually. All that expensive hardware to produce this garbage:
View attachment 330093 View attachment 330092

Such a waste of resources...

Rockna it's a R2-R DAC !
It is very easy to paste a Sabre or AKM chip and then brag about its performance. It is interesting what you can do from scratch.

 

[Killingbeans]

'Interesting' is not the word I'd use. It's sort of impressive to se how HoloAudio manages to equal the performance of a dirt cheap SOTA chip solution.

The Rockna doesn't manage that. It's a bad example of what you can do from scratch.

Still... it's probably not bad enough to give it a "signature" of any kind.

 

[777]

What is the threshold of audible distortions ? 1% ? What is the loudspeaker distortion ? 1% ? THD=0.001% is bad ?

 

[Killingbeans]

Exactly. It's only bad from a technical point of view.

That's why this whole idea of every DAC having a "sound" is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Angsty]

I am told ASR is very measurement-focused, but I don't think my basic system, average living room, and abused ears could tell the difference if the SINAD was -120db or -130db.

Really, we are talking about not hearing an audible difference between a 100 dB SINAD DAC and a 120+ dB DAC. There are loads of inexpensive 100 dB DACs.

In your application, a Schiit Mani will serve you as well as a D70s. I have both.

 

[Jimster480]

Thanks for the welcome. Much appreciated.

Features? All DACs do is convert Digital to Analog. Is there something else? I didn't investigate any features on my D70s. I connected my WiiM Pro Plus to the Coax SPDIF input on the DAC and then connected the RCA analog inputs to my Amplifier. My amplifier has XLR inputs, and the D70s has XLR (balanced) outputs, but I don't have XLR cables, and the distance is only 1m (cable length), so I figured XLR would not offer much of an advantage over RCA (unbalanced).

I am a simple person with old, damaged ears (I was in a rock band some five decades ago). I see no need to rely on measurements unless the sound is so bad that you need measurements to help you figure out what's wrong. I am told ASR is very measurement-focused, but I don't think my basic system, average living room, and abused ears could tell the difference if the SINAD was -120db or -130db.

Thanks again.

The features are basically the inputs and outputs, the ability to adjust the volume, the number of outputs that can be active at once, things like DSD or MQA.
That is what we mean by features.

Are you still laughing about Rockna ? Do you think it looks like Topping D70s ?

Yes we are because it was tested and it is garbage. Literally it has about the performance of my 7 years old Topping D30 based on the CS4398.

Topping D30 review: a quality hi-res DAC at an affordable price - Soundphile Review

The Topping D30 is a DAC with plenty of connections and support for hi-res formats – including DSD. It comes … More

www.soundphilereview.com

Check it out ^

Yes, even more actually. All that expensive hardware to produce this garbage:
View attachment 330093 View attachment 330092

Such a waste of resources...

Ah ha, good on you for finding the measurements.... it is just crap haha. Those resistors are really hard to match and measure the tolerance of and you need like 0.01% matched to produce respectable SINAD in the configuration they used.
Does it look cool on the board? Sure. Do you listen to the looks on the board? No.

Rockna it's a R2-R DAC !
It is very easy to paste a Sabre or AKM chip and then brag about its performance. It is interesting what you can do from scratch.

"Interesting" sure. Competitive? No.
Why reinvent the wheel? DAC's went to integrated circuits literally decades ago because of how standard they are.

What is the threshold of audible distortions ? 1% ? What is the loudspeaker distortion ? 1% ? THD=0.001% is bad ?

1% on some, there are many speakers with less. However as mentioned by others... the Rockna wouldn't have any sound signature with 90db SINAD anyway, it is unlikely unless listening to a highly technical track with very low distortion headphones in a controlled environment.

Really, we are talking about not hearing an audible difference between a 100 dB SINAD DAC and a 120+ dB DAC. There are loads of inexpensive 100 dB DACs.

In your application, a Schiit Mani will serve you as well as a D70s. I have both.

Possibly. However it depends on which features he uses. I have found issues with the Schiit USB interfaces in the past; so I would just rather avoid their products at all costs.

 

[777]

The features are basically the inputs and outputs, the ability to adjust the volume, the number of outputs that can be active at once, things like DSD or MQA.
That is what we mean by features.


Yes we are because it was tested and it is garbage. Literally it has about the performance of my 7 years old Topping D30 based on the CS4398.

Topping D30 review: a quality hi-res DAC at an affordable price - Soundphile Review

The Topping D30 is a DAC with plenty of connections and support for hi-res formats – including DSD. It comes … More

www.soundphilereview.com

Check it out ^

Ah ha, good on you for finding the measurements.... it is just crap haha. Those resistors are really hard to match and measure the tolerance of and you need like 0.01% matched to produce respectable SINAD in the configuration they used.
Does it look cool on the board? Sure. Do you listen to the looks on the board? No.


"Interesting" sure. Competitive? No.
Why reinvent the wheel? DAC's went to integrated circuits literally decades ago because of how standard they are.

1% on some, there are many speakers with less. However as mentioned by others... the Rockna wouldn't have any sound signature with 90db SINAD anyway, it is unlikely unless listening to a highly technical track with very low distortion headphones in a controlled environment.


Possibly. However it depends on which features he uses. I have found issues with the Schiit USB interfaces in the past; so I would just rather avoid their products at all costs.

I understand, you recommend that we eat McDonald's instead of black caviar because the measurements show us that the hamburger is more nutritious. Ok, life in plastic is fantastic

 

[Jimbob54]

I understand, you recommend that we eat McDonald's instead of black caviar because the measurements show us that the hamburger is more nutritious. Ok, life in plastic is fantastic

No. If the McDonalds was more nutritious than the caviar AND tasted the same to most palates, he is saying why buy the caviar?

 

[Killingbeans]

I understand, you recommend that we eat McDonald's instead of black caviar because the measurements show us that the hamburger is more nutritious. Ok, life in plastic is fantastic

Like @Jimbob54 says, a better analogy would be that McDonalds sold super cheap caviar that tasted exactly the same and had exactly the same mouth feel as Beluga when tested blind. The only thing making it audibly "plastic", would be the bias in your mind created from your knowledge of its origin.

 

[Lupin]

Rockna it's a R2-R DAC !
It is very easy to paste a Sabre or AKM chip and then brag about its performance. It is interesting what you can do from scratch.

You mean trying to solve a problem that already has been solved years ago and charge fifty times more for it just because...

ps.
Manufactures still push Sabre based DACs on the market with the infamous hump... so doesn't seem such an easy "paste" as you claim.

 

[Jimster480]

I understand, you recommend that we eat McDonald's instead of black caviar because the measurements show us that the hamburger is more nutritious. Ok, life in plastic is fantastic

Black Caviar? That is not at all to my liking. However as @Jimbob54 mentioned; if the McDonalds was more nutritious and tasted the same to most people then you wouldn't be paying money for these fancy foods. Which is a perfect way to try to explain this weird analogy you put together.

The thing is that the analogy has nothing to do with audio quality because one thing is about nutrition and the other is about sound quality. When the sound quality of something like the D70 is already PERFECT you cannot go beyond PERFECT. With Food there is no "perfect Food" because it is subjective and there are many different ways to make the same food offering similar calories and nutrition.

 

[Nettuno]

I ask for advice from the more experienced.
With the Topping D70s, Yamaha A-S1200 amplifier and Indiana Line speakers, Everything sounds fantastic but, I use an "Eco show 5" connected via bluetooth or my phone with USB connection to listen to Amazon Music HD.
I would like to improve the transfer of music to my Topping;
The ideal would be the practical "Eco show 5" with USB cable but I have tried several OTGs also powered but it doesn't seem to work.
What do you recommend for streaming and making the most of our little gem? ...I was thinking of something like Wiim Mini