Topping D10s USB DAC and Bridge Review

[JasonC331]

Was there some other firmware for this device? I ask because on archimago blog he mentions a (running linear phase sharp filter firmware).

 

[Toku]

Was there some other firmware for this device? I ask because on archimago blog he mentions a (running linear phase sharp filter firmware).

There is no firmware update for the D10s yet.
Isn't the blog just stating personal wishes for the D10s?

 

[JasonC331]

There is no firmware update for the D10s yet.
Isn't the blog just stating personal wishes for the D10s?

Not sure the review is here was actually surprised that the Topping HS01 did work

MEASUREMENTS: Topping HS01 - USB 2.0 Isolator & Ground Loop Eliminator (and a listen to Santana's "Blessings and Miracles")

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

 

[Toku]

Not sure the review is here was actually surprised that the Topping HS01 did work

MEASUREMENTS: Topping HS01 - USB 2.0 Isolator & Ground Loop Eliminator (and a listen to Santana's "Blessings and Miracles")

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

The firmware he's talking about here is the firmware the product comes with by default. It is not about newly updated firmware.

 

[B00tySalads]

Since this does not have the pre-amp like the E30 II, can you still control the volume via the PC/Windows then?

 

[Phorize]

Since this does not have the pre-amp like the E30 II, can you still control the volume via the PC/Windows then?

Yes.

 

[Tangband]

Yes.

…and this can be done ( might be ) in a better way in the computer , adding dithering and such.

 

[JeyElDee]

Since this does not have the pre-amp like the E30 II, can you still control the volume via the PC/Windows then?

Although possible, this is not recommended. Knowing that the output is nominal 2 Volt, when sliding the volume up, you get full power. And when set at low volume, it might be very difficult to get the volume right. You will also get a worse S/N as all computernoise will go through at 100% and the signal at a much lower percentage. Know that the USB input of this DAC is not filtered as good as all other Topping DACS. You probably would be very disappointed.

 

[Tangband]

Although possible, this is not recommended. Knowing that the output is nominal 2 Volt, when sliding the volume up, you get full power. And when set at low volume, it might be very difficult to get the volume right. You will also get a worse S/N as all computernoise will go through at 100% and the signal at a much lower percentage. Know that the USB input of this DAC is not filtered as good as all other Topping DACS. You probably would be very disappointed.

I dont see any fact pointing at this .
We are talking digital signals here.
Ofcourse you can not use Windows own volume control that really sucks, but an external DDC ( topping d10s ) always has compability to regulate the digital signal from the source using xmos 208.

It would be nice if Amirm did review the topping d10s with the computer and DDC software volume set to -30 dB to see if there is much detoriation of the digital signal .

If the 16 bit music from the computer is remade to 24 bit in the DDC with dithering ( can be done in setting ) I cant see any dissadvantages about that ?

You will have a dynamic range of 144 dB so lowering this with - 30 dB, theres still 114 dB left …

 

[Tangband]

I have sent this question above to Amirm - if he got the time, maybe he can clearify all this .

Edit: I have now read a paper where the Xmos 208 standard implementation has a digital resolution of -160 dB If using digital volume regulation made inside the xmos. It should be good enough for using the topping d10s as a DDC and a Mac/PC as a digital preamp .
No dithering seems to be used.

(This is also way better than the chip that regulates the digital spdif volume control in the Yamaha wxc50 player.
The DSP YSS952 chip has a THD+N spec at 108 dB )

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/whitepaper-roon-dsp-volume-measurements-pdf.131355/

 

[Tangband]

Answer from Amirm from conversation:

SINAD will always go down no matter what kind of volume control you use. Yes, an analog one after the DAC also reduces input noise but then adds its own.

 

[JeyElDee]

I dont see any fact pointing at this .
We are talking digital signals here.
...

Actually, I owned this DAC (for a few days - sent it back).
I could hear my computer through it. (eg CPU-noise, mouse movement - something described elsewhere on ASR) That was with a Desktop PC. No problem with a portable.
Other Topping DAC's connected to that Desktop PC did not suffer from it. So there is a difference in the implementation of the USB connection, adding or letting through too much input noise.
So what I mean : if you happen to have a non-perfect USB port on your computer, chances are you will "hear your computer" with this DAC. And when using digital volume control on the PC means the "sound of the computer" will be at 100% over lower signal. Hence, not a good idea.

 

[somebodyelse]

That's a ground-related noise issue, not non-perfect USB ports. It's a risk on any USB dac with single ended outputs and no galvanic isolation.

 

[Jimbob54]

That's a ground-related noise issue, not non-perfect USB ports. It's a risk on any USB dac with single ended outputs and no galvanic isolation.

And can be resolved with a topping hs01 or similar

 

[Blumlein 88]

I have one of these and have not had any issues with desktop or laptop. I do see a good many other comments about it as well as pops and other things from other owners.

 

[somebodyelse]

I have one of these and have not had any issues with desktop or laptop. I do see a good many other comments about it as well as pops and other things from other owners.

The same could be said about most USB DACs. They work well enough for most people most of the time, but have consistent problems for some people some of the time that aren't really caused by the DAC as such, but the system as a whole. More often than not the pops end up being an issue with the combination of hardware and drivers on the computer in question, although it is sometimes down to the DAC itself.

 

[anotherhobby]

Actually, I owned this DAC (for a few days - sent it back).
I could hear my computer through it. (eg CPU-noise, mouse movement - something described elsewhere on ASR) That was with a Desktop PC. No problem with a portable.
Other Topping DAC's connected to that Desktop PC did not suffer from it. So there is a difference in the implementation of the USB connection, adding or letting through too much input noise.
So what I mean : if you happen to have a non-perfect USB port on your computer, chances are you will "hear your computer" with this DAC. And when using digital volume control on the PC means the "sound of the computer" will be at 100% over lower signal. Hence, not a good idea.

The bolded part above is a false statement if you are specifically referring to this DAC. While it is a true statement that any DAC can get CPU/USB noise, it's really dependant on the computer, it's own level of USB noise, and every other thing connected to the USB chain. As an example, the following DACs all emit very audible CPU noise when my Mac laptop is connected to my desktop system:

• Schiit Modi +
• Topping D10s
• Topping E30
• a cheap off brand DAC who's name I forget

To get around this, I've used the D10s as a USB > Optical bridge to decouple the signal. That is, until I got the miniDSP Flex. The miniDSP Flex is the only DAC that I've ever connected to my Mac that did not make audible USB noise. This is to say, it's the specific combination of your computer and the crap you have, and not the fault of any specific DAC.

 

[Tangband]

The bolded part above is a false statement if you are specifically referring to this DAC. While it is a true statement that any DAC can get CPU/USB noise, it's really dependant on the computer, it's own level of USB noise, and every other thing connected to the USB chain. As an example, the following DACs all emit very audible CPU noise when my Mac laptop is connected to my desktop system:

• Schiit Modi +
• Topping D10s
• Topping E30
• a cheap off brand DAC who's name I forget

To get around this, I've used the D10s as a USB > Optical bridge to decouple the signal. That is, until I got the miniDSP Flex. The miniDSP Flex is the only DAC that I've ever connected to my Mac that did not make audible USB noise. So my experience is the exact opposite of yours. This is to say, it's the specific combination of your computer and the crap you have, and not the fault of any specific DAC.

Is there any difference in USB noise íf you disconnect your Mac laptop from the mains, running it on batteries instead ?

 

[anotherhobby]

Is there any difference in USB noise íf you disconnect your Mac laptop from the mains, running it on batteries instead ?

Unfortunately I don't recall all the permutations of the testing that I did 11 months ago.

 

[JasonC331]

I just got this, and the D10S will go on the shelve :

PO100 Pro

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