• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

hashemfahoum

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
22
Likes
4
If you choose from Topping's products, you can use any DAC with RCA output such as D10S E30 E50 D50s.
I don't really care about extra features. I just want the least noise floor out of the bunch. I'm pretty agitated by noise even if it's barely audile.
 

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
8,490
Likes
10,443
I don't really care about extra features. I just want the least noise floor out of the bunch. I'm pretty agitated by noise even if it's barely audile.
E30 is pretty ideal bang for the buck, but it's end of life, would recommend getting one before they are gone, if you're considering one. Atom DAC+ is also a good choice because it has its own transformer isolated power supply. D10/D10s is actually prone to USB noise. D10B is fairly noise immune due to common mode noise cancellation in balanced out. D50s is a bit pricy unless you want to match it with A50s for a pretty stack. E50 is pretty expensive to use just as RCA out DAC..
 

hashemfahoum

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
22
Likes
4
E30 is pretty ideal bang for the buck, but it's end of life, would recommend getting one before they are gone, if you're considering one. Atom DAC+ is also a good choice because it has its own transformer isolated power supply. D10/D10s is actually prone to USB noise. D10B is fairly noise immune due to common mode noise cancellation in balanced out. D50s is a bit pricy unless you want to match it with A50s for a pretty stack. E50 is pretty expensive to use just as RCA out DAC..
I have been checking everything for the past couple of hours and I have to agree with what you said. E30 sounds the most safe and there are some benefits to ordering from shenzhenaudio.
Atom dac+ is the 2nd option I have if for some reason I can't order the E30.
Now I only need to check the difference between E30 and Dx3 pro+ because for 50$ more I get a dac/amp with bluetooth.
 

Lupin

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
436
Likes
654
What about something like the SMSL SU-6 or SMSL Sanskrit 10th MK II?
 

peniku8

Active Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Messages
213
Likes
357
You can connect the D10B to the Heresy with special cables. 6.35mm Tip connected to RCA Signal, and Sleeve connected to RCA GND. Ring not connected to anything.
Doing so will halve the DAC's output voltage.
I wouldn't use it that way.
I've used it like that on an L30, it causes loud DC pops when the device gets no audio for ~1 second (and when you play audio again), because it seems to mute itself (not driver-settings related, I modified the drivers to include a longer time out, which didn't change this behavior).
Definitely don't convert the D10b to SE.
 

cheapmessiah

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
95
Likes
61
Location
Mordor
I've used it like that on an L30, it causes loud DC pops when the device gets no audio for ~1 second (and when you play audio again), because it seems to mute itself (not driver-settings related, I modified the drivers to include a longer time out, which didn't change this behavior).
Definitely don't convert the D10b to SE.
I would love a firmware revision where the disconect relay doesnt disengage after 10 seconds of no signal in, would like at least 10 minutes or so.
 

half_dog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
357
Likes
268
Location
Brazil
I don't really care about extra features. I just want the least noise floor out of the bunch. I'm pretty agitated by noise even if it's barely audile.
If you can "avoid" ground loop and your pc has a clen USB output, basicallyD10s and E30 has the same noise level... E50 has a even lower noise level (that's why I bought it). But the noise level I'm talking about is almost imperceptible for a average person. To hear it you need a IEM (or a enough sensitive headphone), a amplifier probably in high gain at max volume and no music playing. A kind of situation that is not usable for a sensitive headphone...
 

hashemfahoum

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
22
Likes
4
If you can "avoid" ground loop and your pc has a clen USB output, basicallyD10s and E30 has the same noise level... E50 has a even lower noise level (that's why I bought it). But the noise level I'm talking about is almost imperceptible for a average person. To hear it you need a IEM (or a enough sensitive headphone), a amplifier probably in high gain at max volume and no music playing. A kind of situation that is not usable for a sensitive headphone...
I get you. I personally wouldn't spend on a E50 when E30 does the job and much more. I also think the E30 looks better and the remote does sound nice. I'm not sure but judging by the dimensions it a little smaller than the d10s which is a plus for me. I'm slowly leaning towards the E30 and might even get the L30 at some point to complete the stack and sell/give away the heresy.
 

Lupin

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
436
Likes
654
Definitely don't convert the D10b to SE.
That has been said countless times before in the last 40 pages. Can't believe that after 40 pages people still insist on (trying to) convert the D10b to SE when even John from Topping said in very clear language that it is not a good idea... multiple times.
 

peniku8

Active Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2020
Messages
213
Likes
357
That has been said countless times before in the last 40 pages. Can't believe that after 40 pages people still insist on (trying to) convert the D10b to SE when even John from Topping said in very clear language that it is not a good idea... multiple times.
It's because there was never a clear reason provided; at least I haven't seen one, so I put my L30 on the D10b.
The only reason I've seen John give was 'sample rate change popping noises', which I don't care about. I'm not changing my sample rate and I'm not using direct stream players with source content on different sample rates.
Too many people use the wrong adapters, which tie negative and ground together, which results is poor performance (SINAD in the 80s iirc), which would hurt Topping's reputation and thus I can understand why they advise against it in general.
Both issues were a non concern to me, so I went and did it. If it wasn't for the DC pops on driver time-out, the D10b would be perfectly fine to connect to a SE device, when using the right adapter.
 

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
8,490
Likes
10,443
Both issues were a non concern to me, so I went and did it. If it wasn't for the DC pops on driver time-out, the D10b would be perfectly fine to connect to a SE device, when using the right adapter.
I guess that's why they still advise not to do it though. Seems kinda risky especially paired with some DC coupled amp :D
 

half_dog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
357
Likes
268
Location
Brazil
I get you. I personally wouldn't spend on a E50 when E30 does the job and much more. I also think the E30 looks better and the remote does sound nice. I'm not sure but judging by the dimensions it a little smaller than the d10s which is a plus for me. I'm slowly leaning towards the E30 and might even get the L30 at some point to complete the stack and sell/give away the heresy.
I have had those 3 at the same time, E30 left a few days ago and I'm keeping D10s because its digital digital converter function - it's being used more than I was expecting. L30 and E30 or D10s are nice combos no doubt. Although the remote control being a nice touch, depending how you're going to use it that's won't be so important. The E30's RC kept most of the time in the box - the E50's RC as well so far haha
 

half_dog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
357
Likes
268
Location
Brazil
I guess that's why they still advise not to do it though. Seems kinda risky especially paired with some DC coupled amp :D
Good reminder. D10 Balanced has a quite high DC offset for ground to signal reference.
 

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,930
Likes
1,558
Location
Nashville
I guess that's why they still advise not to do it though. Seems kinda risky especially paired with some DC coupled amp :D
Yep-that "pop" could become a loud "boom" if something goes horribly wrong. Bye bye tweeters.
 

hashemfahoum

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
22
Likes
4
That has been said countless times before in the last 40 pages. Can't believe that after 40 pages people still insist on (trying to) convert the D10b to SE when even John from Topping said in very clear language that it is not a good idea... multiple ti

I have had those 3 at the same time, E30 left a few days ago and I'm keeping D10s because its digital digital converter function - it's being used more than I was expecting. L30 and E30 or D10s are nice combos no doubt. Although the remote control being a nice touch, depending how you're going to use it that's won't be so important. The E30's RC kept most of the time in the box - the E50's RC as well so far haha
I'm still really torn between the D10s and the E30. D10s is cheaper and doesn't need a power supply (Only USB) but I've been hearing that a USB only DAC is more susceptible to noise (which I'm very sensitive about). I'm still researching about it but it's getting tiring xD (still fun tho)
 

hashemfahoum

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
22
Likes
4
I'm still really torn between the D10s and the E30. D10s is cheaper and doesn't need a power supply (Only USB) but I've been hearing that a USB only DAC is more susceptible to noise (which I'm very sensitive about). I'm still researching about it but it's getting tiring xD (still fun tho)
It would be very helpful to hear from someone experienced or who has tried both.
 

hashemfahoum

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2022
Messages
22
Likes
4
D10/D10s is actually prone to USB noise.
Is that because it's not powered with a power supply? Or is it just all USB DACs and that I'm better off using an optical?
If D10S has the same noise as E30 when using USB then I'm fine with that. I don't want to get into optical as I have already spent a lot of time trying to decide on a DAC and USB is more convenient (using a laptop).
 

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
8,490
Likes
10,443
Is that because it's not powered with a power supply? Or is it just all USB DACs and that I'm better off using an optical?
If D10S has the same noise as E30 when using USB then I'm fine with that.
Because it's a cheap USB DAC it doesn't go very far in filtering and a ground loop over its USB is not impossible. The E30 is simply better in this regard.
 
Top Bottom