Topping B100 Amplifier Review

[amirm]

Someone asked if it remembers the power state on AC disconnect. It does NOT. Goes into standby mode.

 

[pablolie]

Awesome for a compact high quality system! 80W not quite enough for the honking floor standers some have a preference for.

My question is: Does Topping make a DAC+Preamp with a sub out?

 

[totti1965]

What's the consensus for a mono block needed to drive inefficient speakers at high volume? This or V3 monos? V3 monos seems it can drive higher power and is a better value (although Sinad not quite as good)

1. Install Dezibel X on your device
2. if you have a loud hearing session - measure for one hour what you’re listening
3. Notice the absolute peak in this session
4. Add 3 dB to 6 dB further reserve
5. Go to http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html
6. Make the calculations

(7. Go for the Topping B200 !!! - SINAD is not everything, power counts!)

 

[terryforsythe]

I doubt they would be constrained by the patent since they don't sell directly in the US.

Incorrect. 35 U.S.C. 271 states:

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States, or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

 

[Esprit]

Listening distance is four meters? I thought we were discussing desktop systems.

I also watch movies or soccer games and I'm a couple of meters from the screen...
I thought we were talking about whether 50 watts are too few or if they are enough...

 

[totti1965]

Incorrect. 35 U.S.C. 271 states:

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States, or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

They would be silly to admit, that they are using a feed forward error correction.
They would be also silly to not using feed forward error correction and strictly adhere to the legal regulations.
They are Chinese!






Just kidding.

 

[terryforsythe]

If you want to see a really weird layout, look up the Sony HAP-Z1ES.

I can see your point, ha ha ha! (From 2:24 min on)

Are you guys talking about the red cable? If so, that is a SATA cable. SATA cables are commonly used to connect SATA drives inside of all sorts of electronic equipment, especially computers. With the gaining popularity of m.2 drives they are not as popular as they once were, but still they are used. Indeed, every motherboard I have purchased over the last 20 years has come with SATA cables.

 

[EJ3]

you mean basicaly every company before topping?

No, that would include Topping!
There are many companies whose equipment I have had & still do have since the late 70's, 80's & 90's that, while I have had them refurbished, upgrade & modded, I have never had one just quit.
And I have never felt the desire to replace them.

 

[terryforsythe]

They would be silly to admit, that they are using a feed forward error correction.
They would be also silly to not using feed forward error correction and strictly adhere to the legal regulations.

If they infringe the patent, they risk getting the product blocked from being imported into the U.S. It would be foolish for them to do that if they were aware of the patent. Nonetheless, oftentimes there are ways to design around the claims of a patent to avoid infringement. That is common.

 

[somebodyelse]

Just added to the review:

EDIT 2: Power Consumption
Standby power consumption is around 1.5 watt. Powered on but not playing, 9.1 watt.

Either I've misunderstood the EU rules on standby power consumption, or Audiophonics shouldn't be selling this.

 

[Negatywny]

Yeah i best 20W, 60 SINAD, 70s amp is extra grate and you will take it to your grave. I would too if it would cost me a 2 year salary 40 years ago.
I can feel the pain that every douchebag can now have shiny, 50W, 120 SINAD, modern efficient amp for the half of lowest possible salary in most western countries.

And guess what, i also didn't have any topping died on me, and i had other company amps died on me, they must suck, right?

 

[totti1965]

Either I've misunderstood the EU rules on standby power consumption, or Audiophonics shouldn't be selling this.

Tell us more!

 

[restorer-john]

If they infringe the patent, they risk getting the product blocked from being imported into the U.S. It would be foolish for them to do that if they were aware of the patent. Nonetheless, oftentimes there are ways to design around the claims of a patent to avoid infringement. That is common.

This is a silly discussion. Feedforward is not the patent. Topping could use feedforward, feedback, a combination of, or whatever they want. We had feedforward amplifiers well over 40 years ago.

 

[staticV3]

My question is: Does Topping make a DAC+Preamp with a sub out?

Not currently.

However, you could use one of their many DACs with both XLR/TRS Balanced and RCA Single-ended Line out.

Connect the balanced out to the B100 and the RCA out to your Sub.

Then use the Sub's crossover knob to match its response to your Mains' natural roll-off.

 

[ryanmh1]

I can't imagine wanting to own an amp that can't offer 25dB gain or more. Otherwise, you're stuck using it with 5V DAC's or a strong pre-amp. Really limits its use and especially as power is already limited to 50W at 8ohms.

There's where you need to understand how much gain you need. This is sensible. Given the power levels at issue, 1.5V would more than drive it into clipping on high gain of around 25dB. It's not an issue since power levels are so low.

I'll bet more than a few of us have spent $600 or more for an amplifier that when all was said and done only effectively put out 50 watts or less. And at the time we may have even thought that the amp delivered nirvana.

Doubt it, unless you're into tubes.

People here on this forum is of course who is being aimed at.

Bingo. I suspect it was a product designed to be measured and top the SINAD chart. THD wars, and all. It was not designed to sell in any sort of rational market since it doesn't fit any actual market need or niche. Passive nearfield monitors? Barely exist. Ultra-sensitive horns? Those guys won't buy this. So who does that leave? Distortion and noise (SINAD) junkies, many of whom will underpower a pair of speakers to get whatever this represents. But that is a market, and I think you're right it hangs out here.

Now, if it didn't have a pair of power bricks, came in a fancy audiophile case, and cost twice as much, from a "branded" name, I could see it. then it would be cheap, even, for the performance, discounting factors like support and long-term reliability.

They would be silly to admit, that they are using a feed forward error correction.

You assume 1) the patent is even valid, and 2) that the patent covers every possible kind of feed forward correction. A lot of these "patented" technologies are little more than rehashing decades old, public domain idea, with a small twist irrelevant to performance that allows "Company X" to claim it is "patented technology." There are multiple ways to get distortion this low which are long out of patent. There's not exactly any magic sauce here, it's just unique sauce because most audio companies have no clue how to use feedback and rely on decades old designs they don't want to redo.

When companies finally decide to apply the science that has been known for at least 25 years now, they can get it right. See, e.g., the Linn amps reviewed recently in Stereophile (https://www.stereophile.com/content/linn-klimax-solo-800-monoblock-power-amplifier-more-measurements). Shocking performance for a high end manufacturer, and presumably not violating patents, either. When power and gain structure are considered, the Linn is a better amp than a Benchmark (albeit with an insane price). This is there, too, for a fraction of the price but with inadequate power for anything but the smallest of bookshelf speakers or those who always listen quietly. If they could put Linn power behind it and match Linn's measurements and sell it for a few grand? Wow, what an amp that would be. Then put a linear supply in it for reliability (and screw the SINAD) and pop some meters onto the faceplate... Now I'm in! At this point, though, you might just be able to use Hypex switching supplies without reliability concerns. If it pukes, they've presumably sold enough to be able to replace it down the road with available or compatible spares.

Whatever the case, the audio circuit engineering here is very good, even if I don't really understand what flea amp target market this is after. But I've never been in that target market, so perhaps that's the problem. They sell a lot of low powered amps, after all.

 

[Ajax]

The Adam Audio I use have, obviously each, 250 watts for the woofer (class D amp), 250 watts for the midrange (class D amp), 50 watts for the tweeter (class A/B amp).
Listening distance about 4 meters.
The 8361 I tested here have double the watts of which 700 are dedicated to its woofers.
Power is never too much.

Hi Espirit,

Could you pls nominate the model number of your speakers. I have had a pair of A7s for nearly 15 years - never missed a beat (pardon the pun) - love them!

 

[Ajax]

Not currently.

However, you could use one of their many DACs with both XLR/TRS Balanced and RCA Single-ended Line out.

Connect the balanced out to the B100 and the RCA out to your Sub.

Then use the Sub's crossover knob to match its response to your Mains' natural roll-off.

Hi Static,

I run my Patio system this way using an SMSL SU8 DAC.

Balanced out to a Buckeye 252 driving BMW AI outdoor speakers and RCA out to a Velodyne sub, which I cross over at 65Hz and just tune the volume to suit. Very simple but works great.

 

[pablolie]

Not currently.

However, you could use one of their many DACs with both XLR/TRS Balanced and RCA Single-ended Line out.

Connect the balanced out to the B100 and the RCA out to your Sub.

Then use the Sub's crossover knob to match its response to your Mains' natural roll-off.

That's an emergency solution though. I can tune things better with what I already have. I think that's a big product feature gap in what Topping is offering. Instead of cranking out an endless list of single-purpose products, I wish they'd evolve into creating a more integrated solution. I think they'd be extremely successful with that, because they clearly have the engineering chops to win an outright spec war even at much lower price points. But on the integration and feature side, they still fall a bit short, at least when it comes to my preferences.

 

[Sokel]

Tell us more!

EU laws strictly state that stand-by power must be 0.5W or below.
And they also describe what "stand-by" is.

Same for bricks plugged and doing nothing.

 

[somebodyelse]

EU laws strictly state that stand-by power must be 0.5W or below.
And they also describe what "stand-by" is.

Same for bricks plugged and doing nothing.

It goes up to 1W if there's information display, or 2W to 8W for different sorts of networked devices, but none of those apply here. Unless there's an exception I've missed then I don't think this amp shouldn't be sold in, or imported into, the EU. The limits are tightening in future too. I'm not sure what the situation is in the UK but I expect it's still the same.
https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/standby-networked-standby-and-mode_en