I'll bet that you won't be able to hear the difference between your "Jot 1" and the new Topping A70 Pro.
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Topping A70 Pro HP & Preamp Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
I'll bet that you won't be able to hear the difference between your "Jot 1" and the new Topping A70 Pro.
I'll bet that *I* wouldn't be able to hear the difference. I'm just not very sensitive to distortion and don't listen all that loud. But I bet Amir could. From his review of the Jot 1:
Listening Tests
I did not bother with my usual level matched blind AB tests. Instead I just played some music and turned up the volume to detect distortion. WIth Sennheiser HD-650 there was fair bit of power but once you went past the 2:00 o'clock position on the volume control, you could easily hear the distortion setting in. Similar situation existed with Hifiman HE-400i. Neither could pass my test of loudness without distortion which admittedly means pretty high SPLs (sound levels).
These look like they'd be really good for the Hifiman HE-6 series and Susvara. At 60ohm and 83dB@1mW, hitting the 120dB mark takes about 5W.
Thank you @amirm for another great find:
Kudos must be given to Topping for making this unit compatible with the old Topping Ext90 work-horse.
With such impressive results; someone may question whether you performed the measurements while the unit was powered OFF!Where is the distortion?
Kudos must be given to Topping for making this unit compatible with the old Topping Ext90 work-horse.
I don't get the relevance of 20K input impedance to say 5K. or even 100K.
perhaps someone can explain it to me. Thanx.
Peib
Member
wish i could afford it xD
Thanks for your help! Yes, another ASR member also confirmed this as well. I didn't know if there would be an audible difference as I don't have any other HE amp to compare it to and there have been so many new HE Amp/technologies (THX, Discrete, T'ang-ku-la
) over the past 5 years since I bought it. It sounds like most of these technologies are a lot of hype vs actual audible performance. There are probably some other benefits on the new HE amps like lower operating temps that lead to longer product lifespan. Obviously small features like 12v trigger outs, digital display, flexible input selections, muting your headphones when using as a pre-amp for passive loudspeakers, etc. That being said are these features worth replacing my Jot 1? From a cost to performance prespective it doesn't sound like it. The Jot1 currently powers all of my headphones with more than ample headroom.
Thanks for your help! Yes, another ASR member also confirmed this as well. I didn't know if there would be an audible difference as I don't have any other HE amp to compare it to and there have been so many new HE Amp/technologies (THX, Discrete, T'ang-ku-la
I own the Jotunheim amp as well. It gets along very well with all my headphones. While it might not 'measure' as well as the new A70 Pro, the only way to tell if there any real sonic differences is to perform a proper blind listening test between both amplifier devices.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
Which version do you own? I can tell you if it is the one here;
Schiit Jotunheim 2 Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Jotunheim 2 balanced headphone amplifier including the optional DAC. Without the DAC the unit costs US $399. With the included (multibit?) DAC, it costs $599. The unit was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. Edit...
www.audiosciencereview.com
The difference should be immediate and glaring for any decently seasoned ear. Unless the music you listen to happens to be extremely old and low resolution; the amount of distortion in products under 90 SINAD is just too high where it becomes obvious to me nearly immedately. I have a Spotify playlist which helps to point these issues out which you can find without even doing a DBX test and then you can confirm what you were able to hear later with a DBX test.
Agreed. Just like with my 2 DACs. I cannot hear any audible difference between the built in AK4490 DAC in my Jotunheim vs. my SMSL SU-8 V2. I have volume matched them and can't tell them apart in blind AB tests. Failed the test everytime! I know the SU-8 measures better than the AK4490, but no difference to my ears! Appreciate the feedback. Better to put the $$ toward a new Hypex Class-D amp and pair of bookshelf speakers.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
What Amp are you testing them with? What music sources? While your music might not be high res enough or your amp not good enough, it definitely has a difference in fidelity that will come out in better recorded music.Agreed. Just like with my 2 DACs. I cannot hear any audible difference between the built in AK4490 DAC in my Jotunheim vs. my SMSL SU-8 V2. I have volume matched them and can't tell them apart in blind AB tests. Failed the test everytime! I know the SU-8 measures better than the AK4490, but no difference to my ears! Appreciate the feedback. Better to put the $$ toward a new Hypex Class-D amp and pair of bookshelf speakers.
I own the original Jotunheim 1 released in 2016. Looks like from Amir's 2018 test it measured an 84 SINAD. Not great compared to today's SOTA measurements, but audibily would I be able to hear any difference with something like a A70 Pro? That's why I asked the question due to low SINAD measurement.Which version do you own? I can tell you if it is the one here;
Schiit Jotunheim 2 Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Jotunheim 2 balanced headphone amplifier including the optional DAC. Without the DAC the unit costs US $399. With the included (multibit?) DAC, it costs $599. The unit was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. Edit...
The difference should be immediate and glaring for any decently seasoned ear. Unless the music you listen to happens to be extremely old and low resolution; the amount of distortion in products under 90 SINAD is just too high where it becomes obvious to me nearly immedately. I have a Spotify playlist which helps to point these issues out which you can find without even doing a DBX test and then you can confirm what you were able to hear later with a DBX test.
Jot 1 headphone amp with HD600s. Roon server with parametric convolution EQ. Both DACs (SU-8 & Jot internal AK4490 DAC) playing the same tracks simultaneously via Qobuz streams. I personally can't hear any difference.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
Definitely if driven by a DAC with more performance than that 84 SINAD.
The Fulla2 for example which has slightly more performance (in SINAD) and the Modi2 Multibit (around the same SINAD) vs the Jot was hugely different in terms of DAC output vs a SMSL M8 back in the day. The Topping DX7 definitely brought about a large difference at 107 SINAD (on the "new/current" format of testing). Any song that has things like Cymbals or Violin or even higher piano notes sounded muffled or would "clip" on the lower SINAD parts.
Electronic music often has wide frequency and dynamic ranges so it becomes the most apparent that the music sounds "muffled" or closed off with specific parts of specific songs easier to point out.
So part of how much of a difference you will hear does depend on what music you listen to. I found that like Mainstream rap (which I don't listen to really anymore) has a very poor dynamic range and its much harder to tell a difference between lower end products and SOTA products.
Hmm, I think TOPPING performance is meaningless for "especially for some vintage analog components".
It is unreasonable for them, who fight with performance as their weapon, to conduct development considering them. Leave it to someone else.
There is no appeal in average and mediocre products with dispersed resources. Hopefully they will focus on improving performance and reliability and moving forward.
That being said, I think the performance is already near the limit. With nothing to do, they will start spending their time on improving versatility, convenience, and usability.
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Jimster480
Major Contributor
That makes sense if you are using the Jot headphone amp as the test. Both DAC's would be bottlenecked by the Amp itself which doesn't produce much over 90 SINAD at a normal listening volume.
I personally also have an SU-8S and I can confirm the quality is SOTA. To me it clearly sounds cleaner vs some other lower tier products I have tested through my testing program.
What tracks are you playing? What music do you listen to?
Songs to test Audio Quality
Songs to test Audio Quality · Playlist · 31 songs · 38 likes
open.spotify.com
solderdude
Grand Contributor
It's not distortion free, just below the noise floor of Amir's AP (see plots below).
There are already headphones around that need that power to reach impressively loud levels.
I really do think this is the front end for my system I am looking for. Remote controlled relay step attenuation with perfect output. Massively powerful headphone. All the I/O I need (1 digital and 1 analog source). And a gorgeous display. There are very, very few products with a similar package in this price range. I think my Lyr+ may be on the chopping block.
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