Topping A70 Pro HP & Preamp Review

[ThatGuyYouKnow]

I will soon be using the DCA Aeon 2 Noire with the Topping L70, so I naturally wonder if the A70 Pro would provide any noticeably better performance than the L70 in high gain?

 

[enricoclaudio]

I will soon be using the DCA Aeon 2 Noire with the Topping L70, so I naturally wonder if the A70 Pro would provide any noticeably better performance than the L70 in high gain?

I had a DCA AEON 2 Noire and I was driving them with a A30Pro and later with an A90. I also tested them with a Matrix Audio mini-i Pro 3 and in all cases, the amps were able to drive the Noires effortless to ear bleeding levels without a sign of distortion. Honestly, I don't think you would get any improvement "upgrading" to A70Pro coming from L70.

 

[Talisman]

Thanks for the review Amir.
I understand the compliments for the measurements but I can't find anything to get excited about, just like for the DACs, they are essentially all the same products with completely marginal and absolutely inaudible improvements, which can only affect the AP, but certainly not human ears.
From a preamplifier I need sub outputs (maybe two) with selectable low pass filters for the sub output and high pass filters for the power amp, I need at least two other inputs without resorting to various extensions and maybe some good equalization options.
But each of these functions burns precious sinad and therefore we sacrifice them on the altar of measurements.

 

[Moravid]

ASR Product of the Year

 

[Ahmonge]

Honestly, I don't think you would get any improvement "upgrading" to A70Pro coming from L70.

Totally agree. Even my Fiio K5 Pro drive them (Noires) effortlessly at medium (0 dB) gain.

 

[Trell]

Thanks for the review Amir.
I understand the compliments for the measurements but I can't find anything to get excited about, just like for the DACs, they are essentially all the same products with completely marginal and absolutely inaudible improvements, which can only affect the PA, but certainly not human ears.
From a preamplifier I need sub outputs (maybe two) with selectable low pass filters for the sub output and high pass filters for the power amp, I need at least two other inputs without resorting to various extensions and maybe some good equalization options.
But each of these functions burns precious sinad and therefore we sacrifice them on the altar of measurements.

I'd say that's a harsh judgement.

They've added a number features for display of info about the input, as well a menu system using touch buttons. I see that as a start of adding more DSP features that demands a GUI, likely in new releases, but still.

They've also made a manual that is of a much higher quality than before. Everything is clearly labelled on the device as well as the remote, and how to operate it. At first look-through the manual is pretty good and obviously they've taken notice of the comments regarding this.

A70 Pro user manual-TOPPING

 

[AaronJ]

Apart from HP amplifier, what other use is this?
I mean how many inputs does it have? You can buy a passive switched relay volume control from eBay for £50 or less.
For $499, Topping themselves sell good DACs with good HP amps and a perfectly good digital volume control.

This is an amazing front end for a system. How many inputs do you need? Most people have at most one digital and one analog source. I'm glad Topping recognize that some people just don't want digital volume control, and the relay volume control with remote is perfect. Right now I'm using a Schiit Lyr+ as my preamp/headamp for my main hifi system, but even without a tube installed it runs quite hot and pops on power-on if it's not turned on while downstream components are powered off. I am seriously considering selling my Schiit and adding this L70 Pro, and I have been very anti-Topping (not necessarily vocally).

 

[shuppatsu]

Apart from HP amplifier, what other use is this?
I mean how many inputs does it have? You can buy a passive switched relay volume control from eBay for £50 or less.
For $499, Topping themselves sell good DACs with good HP amps and a perfectly good digital volume control.

I agree with this, which really makes me wonder how we ought to evaluate high-end chi-fi products. From one perspective, Topping is competing with itself, and its lower-priced products seriously diminish the value proposition of products like this. OTOH, people routinely pay 10-20x as much for devices like this that perform worse and nobody blinks an eye. It's totally unfair to apply different standards between companies, but it seems fair to compare it to the company's own offerings. I'm not sure how to reconcile this.

For me, this is Topping compounding overkill performance on top of overkill performance. I would want any preamp I own to be able to accommodate multiple digital inputs as well as outputs. IMO anything over $500 should have a built-in DAC; even an Apple Dongle-level DAC would make the unit way more flexible and useful (and would be inaudibly different to me and many others).

But of course, Topping makes products like that for people like me. So why should I complain? Still, this product seems to only make sense for people who want to be able to drive esoterically insensitive headphones. Even taking price out the equation, an EX- or DX-5 makes more sense for most use cases. Happy panther.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Thanks for the review Amir.
I understand the compliments for the measurements but I can't find anything to get excited about, just like for the DACs, they are essentially all the same products with completely marginal and absolutely inaudible improvements, which can only affect the PA, but certainly not human ears.
From a preamplifier I need sub outputs (maybe two) with selectable low pass filters for the sub output and high pass filters for the power amp, I need at least two other inputs without resorting to various extensions and maybe some good equalization options.
But each of these functions burns precious sinad and therefore we sacrifice them on the altar of measurements.

Pretty much what I said.
With just one analogue input, what can one plug into this to justify its performance? even a pro recording studio tape does not require this!
How many people need a HP amp with 8W power? I mean a Chord TT2 does provide more, but that's only because its designer fancied powering up his speakers direct from it, otherwise, what's the point?
Practicality is not in its DNA, overkill is everything here. At least it is being sold for $4999.
I sent my 10 year old DAC/preamp to Amir.

Leema Acoustics Element DAC & Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Leema Acoustics Element stereo DAC and analog input preamp. It is on loan from a member and costs US $2,195. It is a substantial unit with controls that feel good. What sets this DAC apart from others like it, is larger number of digital input...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It had numerous digital inputs, one analogue, a DAC and switched relay volume control, that was fast and very functional, and distortion figures for analogue in was in -130dB range.
You can buy those for £600 or so.

 

[enricoclaudio]

I'd say that's a harsh judgement, in my opinion.

They've added a number features for display of info about the input, as well a menu system using touch buttons. I see that as a start of adding more DSP features that demands a GUI.

They've also made a manual that is of a much higher quality than before. Just take a look:

A70 Pro user manual-TOPPING

WOW.... Best improvement from Topping to date. Finally an user manual that is NOT an Origami.

 

[Phoney]

Here's the Max Power vs Load for Topping's most powerful headphone Amps:
View attachment 285144

I rechecked everything for this graph, and noticed that I made a mistake on the last iteration here.
As you can see the A90 and A90D are actually quite similar. I'm sorry for potentially misleading some folk.
I'll try my best to be more careful going forward.

That doesn't look like 16-17W at 16 ohm? I mean we have infinite power anyways, but the specs are far off of this. Why does the specs say this:

17000mW x 2 @16 Ohms THD+N<0.1%
12600mW x 2 @32 Ohms THD+N<0.1%
6000mW x 2 @64 Ohms THD+N<0.1%
1370mW x 2 @300 Ohms THD+N<0.1%
670mW x 2 @600 Ohms THD+N<0.1%

 

[Talisman]

I'd say that's a harsh judgement.

They've added a number features for display of info about the input, as well a menu system using touch buttons. I see that as a start of adding more DSP features that demands a GUI, likely in new releases, but still.

They've also made a manual that is of a much higher quality than before. Everything is clearly labelled on the device as well as the remote, and how to operate it. At first look-through the manual is pretty good and obviously they've taken notice of the comments regarding this.

A70 Pro user manual-TOPPING

I see what you mean, but these improvements seem like just goodies to me, but nothing really substantial that really improves the offer.
I realize that I seem very harsh with a product that is basically very good for the money, I just can't forgive the trend of these products, they keep "improving" now totally useless measures to improve, sacrificing real functionality, and it is just because they ride the wave of sinad enthusiasm. This makes no sense to me, it's the wrong drift of the measurements

 

[enricoclaudio]

I agree with this, which really makes me wonder how we ought to evaluate high-end chi-fi products. From one perspective, Topping is competing with itself, and its lower-priced products seriously diminish the value proposition of products like this. OTOH, people routinely pay 10-20x as much for devices like this that perform worse and nobody blinks an eye. It's totally unfair to apply different standards between companies, but it seems fair to compare it to the company's own offerings. I'm not sure how to reconcile this.

For me, this is Topping compounding overkill performance on top of overkill performance. I would want any preamp I own to be able to accommodate multiple digital inputs as well as outputs. IMO anything over $500 should have a built-in DAC; even an Apple Dongle-level DAC would make the unit way more flexible and useful (and would be inaudibly different to me and many others).

But of course, Topping makes products like that for people like me. So why should I complain? Still, this product seems to only make sense for people who want to be able to drive esoterically insensitive headphones. Even taking price out the equation, an EX- or DX-5 makes more sense for most use cases. Happy panther.

Read this, PLEASE!

Let's Avoid the Term Chi-Fi

I often see the use of the term "Chi Fi" to describe audio products from China. I see the intention and don't think anyone is trying to be racist and what have you. Still, I like us to show the highest respect to products from around the world. As avid readers of this forum know...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[nonnyno]

I had a DCA AEON 2 Noire and I was driving them with a A30Pro and later with an A90. I also tested them with a Matrix Audio mini-i Pro 3 and in all cases, the amps were able to drive the Noires effortless to ear bleeding levels without a sign of distortion. Honestly, I don't think you would get any improvement "upgrading" to A70Pro coming from L70.

Would agree my L50 can bring on deafness with the Aeon 2 Noire's in no time

 

[nonnyno]

This is an amazing front end for a system. How many inputs do you need? Most people have at most one digital and one analog source. I'm glad Topping recognize that some people just don't want digital volume control, and the relay volume control with remote is perfect. Right now I'm using a Schiit Lyr+ as my preamp/headamp for my main hifi system, but even without a tube installed it runs quite hot and pops on power-on if it's not turned on while downstream components are powered off. I am seriously considering selling my Schiit and adding this L70 Pro, and I have been very anti-Topping (not necessarily vocally).

You missed an opportunity to say you think you'll lose your Schiit????? :->

 

[Trell]

I see what you mean, but these improvements seem like just goodies to me, but nothing really substantial that really improves the offer.
I realize that I seem very harsh with a product that is basically very good for the money, I just can't forgive the trend of these products, they keep "improving" now totally useless measures to improve, sacrificing real functionality, and it is just because they ride the wave of sinad enthusiasm. This makes no sense to me, it's the wrong drift of the measurements

One of the things I look at when buying things electronics is the available documentation. With this release Topping clearly put effort into this, and I'd say they did pretty well. There is a number of things lacking, like specifications, but I'm pretty confident they'll address that in time.

I do think you underestimate the GUI changes going forward, though.

 

[nonnyno]

I see what you mean, but these improvements seem like just goodies to me, but nothing really substantial that really improves the offer.
I realize that I seem very harsh with a product that is basically very good for the money, I just can't forgive the trend of these products, they keep "improving" now totally useless measures to improve, sacrificing real functionality, and it is just because they ride the wave of sinad enthusiasm. This makes no sense to me, it's the wrong drift of the measurements

Its rapdily approaching the same level as mobile phones (they're all you need). They wax lyrical about the next identical slab which has simply slotted a new chip in and altered the bezel thickness by a mm and marginally tweaked the camera.

I can see this foretells the possibility of a peq capability but in that case why not wait unless you absolutely need the DAC now as V2 will be here in 6 months time.

 

[Sray]

Thanks @amirm for such quick review and measurements.
One thing keeps me away from Topping pre/hp amp before is the relatively low input impedance. But, A70Pro has 20kOhm input impedance!! So, after read it from official site, I pull the trigger immediately! Will check how it sound compared with HPA4 when arrived.

 

[muslhead]

Great job Topping. I wish i hadnt sold all my headphones :-(

 

[Phoney]

I would rather save some dollars for less power, because the extra power is useless. Other than that, this amp is beautiful. The DAC is a bit pricey for a DAC however.. If I want this type of screen I think I'd rather use the Eversolo Z6 as a DAC for $240 less.