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This audio cable business is getting out of hand...
- Thread starter amirm
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Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
I think this site is pretty balanced and fair. It mostly seems to me that the complaints about smugness and gloating come from those who have run out of ways to present their thoughts in anything even barely resembling a logical fashion. Generally, I find the actual smugness, gloating and sarcasm mostly reserved for the really over the top outrageous audiophoolery such as the $70000 cables and afaic, that stuff deserves what it gets.
Start here.
Conclusion: Straightened wire clothes hangers work just as well. I leave the rest to you.
Not Insane
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I've not been here that long, but I read quite a few threads before I became a member. I find this place to be, relative to many other sites, a very nice crowd. This and Stevehoffman.tv are my two favorites because of that attribute. In fact, that's why I became a member.
And everybody knows that MC, MI, MM and ceramic cartridges all sound the same.
captain paranoia
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Thank heavens I'm not a paying member, then...
captain paranoia
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I'm sorry; are you saying I have run out of logical arguments...? I'll admit to running out of the will to live at times; I don't care for argument, or banging my head against a brick wall. I'll put my case as logically as I can, but if someone argues back, I can rarely be arsed to pursue it further. There's not much I find to disagree with on this site, but my feeling is that a site that claims to strive for objectivity and a science-based approach shouldn't resort to mockery or gloating.
I understand why people mock and gloat; it's because they are sick of trying to present a logical case against what can sometimes appear to be wilful ignorance. Plus the obvious audiophoolery...
There is a reason that they are very common in house wiring as well as overhead lines - they work, and the electricity from your wall outlet has probably gone through a fair bit of cca.
And steel-reinforced alu cables, too.
Folks who believe in exotic power cords should begin with rewiring their entire power path. Starting with the wires found in the power turbines generating their power. I'm sure their local power company can strike a lucrative deal with the likes of Cardas.
I am not sure CCA is used for housing power; it is (or was ten years ago when we finished our basement) against code in our area to use in housing. Have to use either either pure copper (alloy) or all Al (with special connectors to handle the metal mismatch that caused so many problems years ago).
CCA has higher resistance than pure Cu cable so, if size matters, you need to go up 1-2 sizes (numerically smaller AWG, e.g. 12 AWG CCA to match 14 AWG Cu). The Cu layer tends to be thin and can get scrapped off, leading to poor connections (metallurgical mismatch again plus the resistance goes up when the copper is gone). So for reliability and peace (or piece, all I got) of mind I tend to use regular copper (nothing fancy). It does cost more, however, and I cannot imagine there's any sort of audible difference.
FWIWFM - Don
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Amir, your question above asking "do all other cables contain fog?" in the context that Master Built cables are not used in music production is one that sticks out to me every time in the cable debates.
I point this out all the time to after-market cable devotees: Virtually all the music they listen to was created using regular industry-standard cabling. It follows that, when audiophiles swoon over all the detail, transparency, and sonic information conveyed by their fancy new cables, what they are swooning over is the information captured and conveyed by "regular old" cables used in the recording! And tons of it! Often used under conditions that would make many tweaky audiophiles scream in horror. Every time a cable-loving audiophile crows about the amount of sonic information revealed in his system, he is testifying to the sonic information able to be conveyed by standard cabling!
This applies to the claims from Master Built cables, as you indicate.
If it requires Master Built cable technology to reduce an audible fog over the music, that implies virtually all recorded music using regular cables contain this "fog." So the best Master Built cables could do, if they are more revealing, is to let you hear this "fog."
BUT...of course...that's not what they, or any audiophile cable company, will claim. The claim will be that once you put in the Master Built cables in your system you'll "finally" be able to lower the noise floor so the fog will be removed and you'll get that deep, silent background audiophiles chase. But this makes no sense as it leaves the conundrum: how could this be possible if normal cables used in recording left a "fog?" How would Master Built remove the "fog" in recordings?
But if there isn't a fog contained in most recordings, then it undermined Master Built's claims about regular technology cables having this fog.
These are things they hope audiophiles won't think through.
Darkweb
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I spent more than $20 for cables simply because I wanted them to look good and have nice and sturdy connectors on them. No beliefs that they would part the heavens or sound better.
Wouldn’t it look weird to see $80,000 speakers hooked up with coat hangers?
I guess my point is we all have our limits. Mine was a few hundred bucks for cables. If some dipshit billionaire wants to spend $10,000 on cables then more power to him. For all I know I’m using a higher % of my disposable income on it than he is.
Nobody is putting a gun to my head to buy expensive cables. And I really never see others denigrating someone for using a cheaper cable.
Live and let live I say.
Wouldn’t it look weird to see $80,000 speakers hooked up with coat hangers?
I guess my point is we all have our limits. Mine was a few hundred bucks for cables. If some dipshit billionaire wants to spend $10,000 on cables then more power to him. For all I know I’m using a higher % of my disposable income on it than he is.
Nobody is putting a gun to my head to buy expensive cables. And I really never see others denigrating someone for using a cheaper cable.
Live and let live I say.
Quote from another audio forum (PSC+ is some sort of AudioQuest magic):
"You don't want to have anything below PSC+ in your system. And it doesn't matter that it's the subs because the cables sound even when they are not connected (and powering) any component. To all of you, guys, here... do the experiment: get a spare power cord, plug it into your distributer/power filter (or even into the wall) next to your amps (or a preamp) and put the other end of this cord on the floor (do not connect it to anything!). Now sit down and listen to some music. Next, unplug this cord. Listen again. See what I'm talking about? Power cords have a distinct sonic signature even when they are not powering anything. Their mere presence makes the difference!"
I (and many others I am sure) have said before most audiophiles would faint if they saw all the stuff the signal passes through in the studio on the way from the mic to the consumer recording.
Somebody forgot their meds.... what a load of malarky!
I'm thinking of upgrading the power cords on my Himalayan salt lamps, any advice?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Ha ha , yes the idea you can control the quality of your audio at home is let's say a little shaky.
Still we've all spent shitloads trying.
Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
no no that wasn't aimed at you. More just generally that the smugness tends to arise when the debate has gotten silly I guess is what I mean. And the audiophoolery of course, lol...
Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
Of course. If it was all about looking good and having high quality connections there'd be no issue. The problem is that isn't what it's about. As soon as claims are made regarding wonderful sonic improvements we have a problem. If manufacturers make false promises they should be taken to task shouldn't they?
To be clear though, I personally don't run around getting into arguments with people all over the net whenever I see someone spout off about his awesome new booteek cables. But here, on a forum specifically dedicated to the realities of this stuff, the subject is totally fair game afaic...
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