"Things that cannot be measured"

[krabapple]

Certainly being different says something more than if it was the same.
(Whereas with it being the same, you could still have differences in phase or timing.)

The question was whether its the same mastering in a different format, or a remaster. The graph answers that question.

 

[krabapple]

People ask for the highest possible resolutions and one would be daft not to supply those (when the actual recordings are done in that highest format)
Where there is a demand there is a market.

HDTracks does the same thing

No one is forced to buy the highest resolution directly but I would assume buyers might gladly pay that bit extra 'knowing' the 'quality' of the recording is 'higher'.
Not that they would NEED it or actually hear it but rather they want it and believe they can hear it.
A good incentive to more expensive buy hi-res.

Dare I say it's SINAD all over again? THough companies are not touting SINAD numbers afaik (yet)

 

[Sal1950]

HDTracks does the same thing

At least AFAIK HDTracks limits their max to 24-192 which though a bit silly for home music reproduction isn't totally ridiculous like 2x DXD (32/705.6) or Octo Rate DSD (512fs) This constant promotion of ever faster data rates and bigger file sizes is so far beyond any reality and is just the perfect software example of the luxury music groupies run amok. All it accomplishes is to make the unenlightened JoeSixpack unsatisfied with his gear based on lies and deceptions. We are living in the golden age of home music reproduction and these folks just continue to shovel crap on the fact.

DXD Resolution explained | NativeDSD Help

What is DXD? It is 352.8KHz 24/32 bit PCM. Explained in detail as to why we sell this resolution.

help.nativedsd.com

"Interestingly, NativeDSD team members as well as some NativeDSD customers and music reviewers have found after listening to DSD files made from DXD edited masters that the DSD versions, particularly the higher bit rate examples at Double Rate DSD (DSD 128fs), Quad Rate DSD (256fs) and Octo Rate DSD (512fs), sounded more natural, spacious, and life-like than the DXD parent from which they were made."

 

[ahofer]

"Interestingly,"

 

[tmtomh]

Dare I say it's SINAD all over again?

Well, yes and no. I'd say sample rate is more of a binary situation. The sample rate is either high enough to encode all the necessary frequencies, or it's not. With SINAD it's of course true that most components have SINAD higher than what we can hear in most real-world situations, but it's still a matter of degree in a way that sample rate is not.

I suppose SINAD has a closer analogue (no pun intended ) in bit depth, but even there it's a rather weak one since the practical use of only 16 or 24 bits, and the widespread use of noise-shaped dither with 16-bit, makes bit depth almost a binary/irrelevant question too, just like sample rates of 44.1k or higher are.

 

[Head_Unit]

Holy Schmoly, it's available in 2x DXD 32/768!!! If you got a DAC that will play it, it must part the waters, remove the veils, etc, etc, etc.

Chick Corea's Rendezvous in New York was recorded in super DSD...but made me realize I don't find Bobby McFerrin interesting, so never mind the sound quality.

 

[Sal1950]

Chick Corea's Rendezvous in New York was recorded in super DSD...but made me realize I don't find Bobby McFerrin interesting, so never mind the sound quality.

Over the years I can't say how many recordings I've bought on SQ reviews, etc; that I hated.
With some I was exposed to good new music, with some I gained a tool by which to judge my setup.
And with others they just belonged as land-fill.
Can you say, Cowboy Junkies - The Trinity Sessions
JMHO, YMMV LOL

 

[RayDunzl]

Page 98:

Did anyone come up with anything that can't be measured?

 

[krabapple]

the explanation for the vinyl renaissance?

 

[xray]

Page 98:

Did anyone come up with anything that can't be measured?

Satisfaction?
Veil opacity?

 

[pkane]

the explanation for the vinyl renaissance?

Quick measurement shows 538 pages.

 

[pablolie]

Quick measurement shows 538 pages.

And yet, no definitive answers, clearly.

 

[Sal1950]

the explanation for the vinyl renaissance?

And yet, no definitive answers, clearly.

I believe it's been answered many, many, many, times in that thread, folks just have to post their same info/opinions over and over. LOL
When it comes to being a relevant source for High Fidelity music in the last 4 or 5 decades there are none, that's the point the OP was trying to bring out.
Every home music source had it's day, from Edison cylinders, 78 shellacs and crank mechanical Victrola's, 45s, cassettes, etc, etc, etc.
If your a collector of obsolete gear or just enjoy having a very involving toy to play with, it works well.
Otherwise I ran out of time around 1985.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Page 98:

Did anyone come up with anything that can't be measured?

Yeah, I think bit depth on the famous Telarc recording of the Big Bang is insufficient to capture its full dynamics.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yeah, I think bit depth on the famous Telarc recording of the Big Bang is insufficient to capture its full dynamics.

Originally recorded for and released on LP using the Soundstream system. It was limited to 16 bits. Later released onto CD. I seem to recall the cannons and cymbals were re-recorded for later releases on DSD or some such. You think 144 db is not enough? Still does not mean such cannot be measured only that recording it is a problem. I've seen somewhere an article regarding the CD. The cannon causes some clipping and it happens below 0 dbFS, so presumably the microphone pre or microphone clipped. Telarc said no compression or processing was done, but obviously one had to set levels somewhere in the chain. Perhaps it could be done now with two different ADCs running at different levels and combined to achieve that full range and released in 32 bit format. That will do it.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Originally recorded for and released on LP using the Soundstream system. It was limited to 16 bits. Later released onto CD. I seem to recall the cannons and cymbals were re-recorded for later releases on DSD or some such. You think 144 db is not enough? Still does not mean such cannot be measured only that recording it is a problem. I've seen somewhere an article regarding the CD. The cannon causes some clipping and it happens below 0 dbFS, so presumably the microphone pre or microphone clipped. Telarc said no compression or processing was done, but obviously one had to set levels somewhere in the chain. Perhaps it could be done now with two different ADCs running at different levels and combined to achieve that full range and released in 32 bit format. That will do it.

I think you may have missed my admittedly poor attempt at humour

 

[Chubbs McCallister]

OP's original proposition:

"Something the subjectivist crowd often brings up. "There are things we cannot measure but the human ear/brain can hear it. We retort, an analyzer can hear much better than any human can. Which is the truth."

If I aim my speakers in 5 degrees more than normal, the soundstage collapses into a single point, treble increases noticeably, and REW measures no visible difference in the charts. Yet the sound is completely different as day and night.

Anyone else see this phenomenon?

 

[Blumlein 88]

OP's original proposition:

"Something the subjectivist crowd often brings up. "There are things we cannot measure but the human ear/brain can hear it. We retort, an analyzer can hear much better than any human can. Which is the truth."

If I aim my speakers in 5 degrees more than normal, the soundstage collapses into a single point, treble increases noticeably, and REW measures no visible difference in the charts. Yet the sound is completely different as day and night.

Anyone else see this phenomenon?

No.

I've done measures with REW around speakers from different angles and you don't get the same thing. You get visible differences in the graphed results. What speakers, and distance from them did you do this measurement?

 

[Chubbs McCallister]

No.

I've done measures with REW around speakers from different angles and you don't get the same thing. You get visible differences in the graphed results. What speakers, and distance from them did you do this measurement?

I'll try to measure and post the graphs tomorrow.

No.

I've done measures with REW around speakers from different angles and you don't get the same thing. You get visible differences in the graphed results. What speakers, and distance from them did you do this measurement?

I'll try to measure tomorrow and post the graphs.

 

[Ron Texas]

I find the new remaster of her classic album, Thousand Shades of Blue, incredible. One would think it impossible to improve but the devil is in the small details.

For the fun of it, I asked chatgpt why the remaster sounds better and amazingly it seems spot on;

I think the improvements you heard are due to a different mixing philosophy and experience. Improved technology is a long shot. My view of the AI is it offers many reasons but doesn't know which one(s) are important. It's a nice album.