Please back away from issuing personal insults. A member with over 2600 posts and 3200 likes could hardly be a troll. You know better and I’m going to leave it there. We all have bad days.
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The wait is over: Genelec 8381A point source main monitor has arrived
- Thread starter sarumbear
- Start date
And that's why I said the listening tests that showed those methods are preferred would likely valid for ART as well. They "occupy the same space." Not complicated.
It was there originally. You should not have omitted it.
The fact something exists doesn't make it relevant to the market place. I'd be surprised if a single member of this board has used either of them. I don't know of any well known room EQ that uses them.
Specifically you were asking for:
You were provided with it. It should have ended there. If you choose not to accept it (without offering any contrary evidence), I can't help you.
Newman
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I was appreciative for the reminder about that paper, which I had seen before and forgotten.
However, it does not support any argument that ART delivers something in audible terms that cannot be done with multiple subwoofers. Rather the opposite.
Perhaps you misread my words that you quote above, "compared to multiple subs crossing to main drivers and all expertly equalized up to 300-500 hz", as excluding certain subwoofer implementations that DO deliver reduced room reverb delay, but why would I mean that? It's illogical to think that I would.
So my conclusions are correct unless something new is added. And I think others are probably able to see that now.
Mission accomplished.
However, it does not support any argument that ART delivers something in audible terms that cannot be done with multiple subwoofers. Rather the opposite.
Perhaps you misread my words that you quote above, "compared to multiple subs crossing to main drivers and all expertly equalized up to 300-500 hz", as excluding certain subwoofer implementations that DO deliver reduced room reverb delay, but why would I mean that? It's illogical to think that I would.
So my conclusions are correct unless something new is added. And I think others are probably able to see that now.
Mission accomplished.
Wow. If being able to tell yourself that is more important to you than understanding/acknowledging the data presented, like I said, I can't help you. I've wasted a bunch of my time. My mistake.
Could you elaborate?
The marketing has officially won!
Based on the language you used, I think it is fair for me to reply by asking what reality you live in? You are not making any sense! If this system reduces the need for room treatment, that's fine. But then you list room treatment systems that are extremely atypical, and you say it like you think you are winning your argument, while simultaneously unaware that these things are not "typical room treatment"? What argument do you think you are winning? Who is caring about this?
You said this will make your $5k Denon better than a Trinnov? Well, I guess the joke is on you! According to Dirac's website, "Dirac ART" is currently only available on Storm Audio processors. I found a used one listed on Ebay for $13,500. Bargain!
Dirac Live Active Room Treatment (ART) - Dirac
Active Room Treatment calibrates your speakers as a unified system and uses each speaker’s strengths for unmatched clarity.
www.dirac.com
Can we go back to talking about the 8381As now?
No, the measurements have.
That's precisely the point. Very few people have treatments effective enough in the low bass to obtain similar results. Because they are so impractical. In other words, most people will never get similar results from common treatments and EQ. Therefore, a tool which allows them to even take a step in that direction without the impractical treatments may be a useful tool indeed.
Not for long. You do realize there's an expiration date on that, right? Afterward the "joke will be on" who?
If that's what you really wanted, you could have just said something about the 8381As, instead of dredging up a comment nearly three weeks old to restart the same argument everybody else had let die.
LOL! I'm glad you found your new religion!
It's funny that you think the reason there is only one low volume manufacturer currently supporting the new software is because they have an exclusive license! It can't possibly anything to do with hardware limitations and signal processing limitations!
You are right that it is too early to know what the ultimate price point will be when major manufacturers incorporate it into their products. Which is why you gotta settle down! Your $5k Denon is going to become a $8-10k Denon by the time the dust settles. And it is possible that it never becomes mainstream!
You are right; this is a great opportunity to say something about Genelec. I can explain why Genelec's GLM is vastly superior to Dirac. It is a simple reason based on science and engineering.
Genelec's GLM is designed for active speakers, and obviously those speakers are designed from the ground up to be integrated into this system. This allows maximum control. In particular, it allows Genelec to adjust crossover points and slopes based on measurements. In comparison, Dirac is inferior because it will be used with passive speakers, so they have no control over the speaker design or the crossovers. (Yes, of course they can change the subwoofer crossover.....)
I already said it would be great for a consumer level system to provide better low frequency control for multiple subs. But it is clear that your expectations far outpace what is physically possible. Dirac themselves say this is an incremental improvement, not some "coming to God" product that will transform everything.
But please, continue to preach....
Of course it can. I have considered this and looked into it. I'm guessing you have not.
First, I've never said a single bad word about GLM (other than the fact it does not reduce decay time in bass frequencies, but recommends bass traps for that--that wasn't a bad word, just a statement of fact). All different room correction systems have strengths and weaknesses, one should be able to discuss them without getting defensive and taking it as an attack on their favored brand. Heck, even Audyssey has some capabilities I like that Dirac does not have.
Second, nobody has ever suggested using anything other than GLM for the 8381A as that particular speaker is obviously designed to work with it.
Are you under the impression that if one has say, a pair of 8320A's that GLM will mess with the crossover between the tweeter and midwoofer? If so, I don't think you're correct about that. Yes, for the 8381A it is adjusting more than one crossover in the bass in that speaker, but my understanding is this is a new capability specific to that speaker alone.
Dirac is used with active speakers all the time. No, it doesn't redesign your speakers or crossovers (not really something one should expect from room correction) but it does attempt to phase/time align each individual driver in each speaker--active or passive.
Which is why some of us are happy to see new products enter the market which have the potential to do so. I guess this doesn't apply to everybody, specifically the fervently brand loyal.
OK, you're going to need to back that up with something very specific if you want to be taken seriously.
It's clear somebody here needs to settle down, that's for sure.
Appears to me that a lot of companies are using that "tweeter surrounded by other tweeters (that serve as a giant mid-range driver)" a great big coaxial speaker if you will. Shocked me to see Genelec use this configuration....I've others use it before.
I believe those 4 drivers are 5” they are not tweeters. That would give you a sense of the size of these.
Thank you, didn't realize that they were 5 inch drivers.
However, that brings them into a configuration of several speakers that I'm familiar with (that would be the Legacy Whispers and the Helix). It's not a"beautiful" speaker, but I've heard Channa's immersive mix over on YouTube coming out of the 8381's. Pretty impressive - and as far as the listeners reaction - everyone seemed to be impressed.Wow I’ve never heard them. Did you go to Natick? I bet they sound glorious. The entire ones series will just blow your mind. It was like VR for audio.Thank you, didn't realize that they were 5 inch drivers.
No, I didn't attend, Channa's video popped up on my feed last night....impressed indeed!
Have I got this right? You've listened to your system playing a YT video of the Genelecs playing something and felt able to judge the Genelecs? Hmm.
Who is Channa?
He's an immersive sound mixer that does shows with "Joe N Tell" and with Erin ...he's known as Channa D. The demo I saw was from the NAMM show.
No...no...and...no. I listened to a YT video and I judged Channa's immersive mix as presented by the Genelecs...through my own speakers. It was quite convincing, especially if you can throw a persay 270 degree image when I'm only using stereo speakers. It was quite wild!
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