Please sell me on "ruler flat" near field monitors.

[lowkeyoperations]

Start off by adding Dirac live to your current monitors and see how that improves things for you.

Even if you subsequently decide to update your monitors, you will need room correction so it’s not going to be a waste of money.

I think you will find a massive improvement just with that change.

This isn’t likely to be a popular opinion here, but there’s been plenty of great tracks mixed on NS10s. Your knowledge of them is likely, in my opinion, worth more than any marginal gains you might get moving to something like bottom of the range Neumanns.

 

[sigbergaudio]

This isn’t likely to be a popular opinion here, but there’s been plenty of great tracks mixed on NS10s. Your knowledge of them is likely, in my opinion, worth more than any marginal gains you might get moving to something like bottom of the range Neumanns.

Just to clarify my standpoint, I have never said great tracks haven't been and/or can't be mixed on the NS10s. It's just harder than it could have been.

 

[goat76]

Just to clarify my standpoint, I have never said great tracks haven't been and/or can't be mixed on the NS10s. It's just harder than it could have been.

It's not harder for someone who knows the in and out of the NS10s. The very reason for the popularity of the Yamaha monitors was that they were considered highly revealing for faults in the mix, so for those who liked them, it was probably a work tool that made things easier and faster to get the work done. If that wasn't the case, they would simply stop using them.

 

[sigbergaudio]

It's not harder for someone who knows the in and out of the NS10s. The very reason for the popularity of the Yamaha monitors was that they were considered highly revealing for faults in the mix, so for those who liked them, it was probably a work tool that made things easier and faster to get the work done.

I will certainly agree that the more they use it, the easier it becomes.

If that wasn't the case, they would simply stop using them.

This is again assuming rationality that may not always be there, but sure.

 

[goat76]

I will certainly agree that the more they use it, the easier it becomes.

So what do you find more likely, that mixing engineers had to struggle for a long time to get the NS10s to work for them for some unknown reason, or that they came to the conclusion that their mixes translated well pretty fast after starting using these speakers?

This is again assuming rationality that may not always be there, but sure.

Their job is dependent on fast and reliable results, so to think they would use a monitor for any other reasons than that simply doesn’t make any sense.

 

[sigbergaudio]

So what do you find more likely, that mixing engineers had to struggle for a long time to get the NS10s to work for them for some unknown reason, or that they came to the conclusion that their mixes translated well pretty fast after starting using these speakers?

Or perhaps there wasn't a bunch of great alternatives at the time when they first became popular, and since then people have sort of stuck with it?

 

[goat76]

Or perhaps there wasn't a bunch of great alternatives at the time when they first became popular, and since then people have sort of stuck with it?

So what would be the reason for these people not to keep using the NS10s, when the result of their work is still better than using other monitors, which is the case according to the original poster of this thread?

It would obviously be way harder for him trying to force himself to get the same job done using other monitors.

 

[DSJR]

Pics I've seen recently of modern studios *seem* to indicate that NS10's feature less and less on the meter bridge and mid size (by domestic standards) actives more and more in place of the in-wall huge monitors of old. Does anyone else find this maybe? I know we've had a thread about studios for 'classical' music...

 

[sigbergaudio]

So what would be the reason for these people not to keep using the NS10s, when the result of their work is still better than using other monitors, which is the case according to the original poster of this thread?

It would obviously be way harder for him trying to force himself to get the same job done using other monitors.

"when the result of their work is still better than using other monitors" this is an unqualified assumption.

There's little point of me speculating about the reasoning of people I do not know. Personally, if my full time job was listening to music, beyond getting a more accurate monitor from a purely professional perspective, I would like something that sounded a lot better than the NS10s purely in order to be able to enjoy the music more, have proper bass response and less listening fatigue. No reason it shouldn't be enjoyable.

I would also like something better and more impressive to use when showing my work off to my customers.

 

[goat76]

"when the result of their work is still better than using other monitors" this is an unqualified assumption.

What assumption?

The original poster clearly states that both he and his clients were more satisfied with the result of his mixing job when he had used the NS10s over the other monitors. The end result is all that counts, the same thing goes for other mixing engineers whatever kind of monitors work best for them.

There's little point of me speculating about the reasoning of people I do not know. Personally, if my full time job was listening to music, beyond getting a more accurate monitor from a purely professional perspective, I would like something that sounded a lot better than the NS10s purely in order to be able to enjoy the music more, have proper bass response and less listening fatigue. No reason it shouldn't be enjoyable.

And if those better-sounding monitors of your choice would give you a worse mixing result, would you still use them for the mixing job just because they better satisfy your enjoyment of listening to music?

I would also like something better and more impressive to use when showing my work off to my customers.

I’m sure most of them would use something else for that. The NS10s are known for being brutality revealing tools for faults in the mix, but I also heard that not many of those mixing engineers would choose the NS10s for just the pleasure of listening to music.

 

[sigbergaudio]

What assumption?

The original poster clearly states that both he and his clients were more satisfied with the result of his mixing job when he had used the NS10s over the other monitors. The end result is all that counts, the same thing goes for other mixing engineers whatever kind of monitors work best for them.

Of course, but the experiments of the original poster is hardly conclusive, otherwise he wouldn't post here either.

And if those better-sounding monitors of your choice would give you a worse mixing result, would you still use them for the mixing job just because they better satisfy your enjoyment of listening to music?

No, but there is no reason to assume that would happen, and in my experience that is also not what typically happens.

 

[dasdoing]

this is just a copy of the discussion here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tone-cla-10-yamaha-ns-10m-clone-review.46954/

 

[sigbergaudio]

this is just a copy of the discussion here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tone-cla-10-yamaha-ns-10m-clone-review.46954/

Not at all, we have over 50 pages to go yet!

 

[goat76]

Of course, but the experiments of the original poster is hardly conclusive, otherwise he wouldn't post here either.

I find it good that he is open to the possibility that he can find something else that would suit him well, the NS10s are no longer in production and it's probably hard to find replacement parts if something gets broken.

No, but there is no reason to assume that would happen, and in my experience that is also not what typically happens.

Experience with what?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Experience with what?

Experience with engineers trying something else.

 

[Jaxjax]

After looking all morning at studios all over the USA & the world for that matter it seems it's all over the place on what everyone uses. Plenty of ns10's still being used ..well at least there in visual site on the console. Some of these studio's are insane, would love to see them all in person.
Joe

 

[Palmer]

Hi- My name is Noel and I am a former Columbia Records recording artist and member of Gearspace for years now. I have a guest room studio where I mostly record my own music and sometimes do stuff for film and television. I am currently using NS10 studio monitors vertically oriented with a consumer grade sub which I "tune by ear".

Hi Noel, if I may...
This thread goes back a while and I wonder if you found something in the time that has passed? I would strongly suggest to you to see if you can find some NOS original Auratones, or at least a pair that is in good shape and unmolested. These are getting hard to find and while they don't help in the way of making the mixes that you strive for, they are still found in many serious studios for the immeasurable benefit they provide. The Auratones are always the final check for a mix, if everything is still there of what you put in to your mix when you switch to them, and it sounds good (within the obvious limitations of the things) then it will be fine everywhere else. There are way more good NS10's out there than there are Auratones. I haven't found anything to replace mine with. Best, Hans

 

[kemmler3D]

Hi Noel, if I may...
This thread goes back a while and I wonder if you found something in the time that has passed? I would strongly suggest to you to see if you can find some NOS original Auratones, or at least a pair that is in good shape and unmolested. These are getting hard to find and while they don't help in the way of making the mixes that you strive for, they are still found in many serious studios for the immeasurable benefit they provide. The Auratones are always the final check for a mix, if everything is still there of what you put in to your mix when you switch to them, and it sounds good (within the obvious limitations of the things) then it will be fine everywhere else. There are way more good NS10's out there than there are Auratones. I haven't found anything to replace mine with. Best, Hans

My take of checking mixes on lesser systems is not that the song should sound "good" per se (crap speakers are crap speakers) but the mix should retain its character - the mix shouldn't sound like a different mix, it should sound like itself on a worse speaker. Instruments should still sit relative to each other the same way.

 

[Descartes]

Genelec the Ones

 

[Palmer]

My take of checking mixes on lesser systems is not that the song should sound "good" per se (crap speakers are crap speakers) but the mix should retain its character - the mix shouldn't sound like a different mix, it should sound like itself on a worse speaker. Instruments should still sit relative to each other the same way.

Thank you, my pointy exactly. I must mention, from personal experience; that excellent engineers like the one I was fortunate to encounter in the RCA Studios LA back in the day can make Auratones sing. At very modest volume, of course. Personally I don't think of the Auratone as a crap speaker, but rather a very limited capability speaker.