The Sigberg Audio SBS.1 speakers are actually large (concept explanation)

[sigbergaudio]

Comparing it to the JBL HDI 3800 is useful. Might be better to compare it to a Revel like the Salon2 or Revel F326be

SBS.1 = $7.3 Plus
3 x 12inch Incognito = $9.4 (~Revel F328be price)
or
4 x 12inch Incognito = $12.5 (~Revel Salon2 price)

The Salon2s and Sigberg SBS.1 both cross to low frequency at ~150Hz but the Sigbergs are native multi-sub. The SBS.1 plus Multi-subs also has matched amplification. Bass response of SBS.1 plus Multi-sub will always be better than either the F328be or Salon2 alone without adding two or three subs to the Revels.

SBS.1 has -3dB at 90hz, but yes. You get lots of capacity, high quality sound AND built-in amplification. And it's a 3.5-way, so almost a 4-way like the Salon2 (you got 2x5.5" doing midbass duty, one of them also doing midrange).

 

[Purité Audio]

SBS.1 next to D&D 8Cs the Sigberg really are diminutive but pack a punch, ‘Inkognito’ flat sub in foreground.
I use the SBS/Inkognito every day, they are superb.


Keith

 

[dedobot]

SBS.1 next to D&D 8Cs the Sigberg really are diminutive but pack a punch, ‘Inkognito’ flat sub in foreground.
I use the SBS/Inkognito every day, they are superb.


Keith

I can see one of the best of all time rock/punk album London Calling , cheers.!

 

[sigbergaudio]

Well, I'm very late to this thread, but years ago I also had a problem with customers not understanding size in online listings. People would order stuff and complain thinking it was supposed to be bigger.

I added a silhouette of a guy standing in the illustration next to the item and didn't get any more complaints like that. "Typical floor stander" for size is good but not as universally intuitive as a person.

 

[CinamonRolls]

Have you considered using a happy wife as a size reference?

A wife turned away from the large floorstander with her hand stretched out to it like "no" then her other hand on her cheek as she looks approvingly at the SBS.1, ha ha.

 

[CinamonRolls]

SBS.1 has -3dB at 90hz, but yes. You get lots of capacity, high quality sound AND built-in amplification. And it's a 3.5-way, so almost a 4-way like the Salon2 (you got 2x5.5" doing midbass duty, one of them also doing midrange).

Is -3db at 90Hz when reinforced by boundaries? Another thing that confuses me is this statement on the website: "116dB Max SPL per speaker @1m (weighted pink noise)"

I don't know what that means. But if it's a common descriptor that audiophiles understand then there's no reason to change it.

 

[EJ3]

Is -3db at 90Hz when reinforced by boundaries?

Good question!

As to: 'Another thing that confuses me is this statement on the website: "116dB Max SPL per speaker @1m (weighted pink noise)"
I don't know exactly what that means. But if it's a common descriptor that audiophiles understand then there's no reason to change it.'

I do not know if that is a common descriptor for audiophiles (at one time there was an SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter that seemed to be common) but it is a correct descriptor
and I think that I know what it means.

I believe that the main jist of it is that is the Maximum SPL possible with 1 speaker is: ([in this case 116db] {feeding it more power will not make it louder: but bad things may happen if you continue adding power to 1 speaker that has reached this SPL level]}).
However, if you have a second speaker in the same room as the first speaker, with the same amount of power, playing the same thing, the room will most likely be louder than if it was just the one speaker.
How much louder is highly room dependent.

Of course, I could be mistaken. My wife tells me that has happened before.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Is -3db at 90Hz when reinforced by boundaries? Another thing that confuses me is this statement on the website: "116dB Max SPL per speaker @1m (weighted pink noise)"

I don't know what that means. But if it's a common descriptor that audiophiles understand then there's no reason to change it.

-3dB at 90hz is anechoic, so without boundary reinforcement.

It is not a common descriptor, since most speaker companies does not provide max SPL information in their specifications.

If you ask what it means technically, it means we measure max SPL @1m using CTA-2034 weighted pink noise.
If you ask what it means in practice, it means that you will able to play music at ~116dB measured in-room 2 meters from the speakers with a pair of SBS.1, which is quite loud indeed. To give some indication of how loud it is, you will need (at least) 2x10D subwoofers (4x10" bass drivers) to keep up. And this is where it starts to make sense that an SBS.1 system has more dynamic headroom than even quite large floorstanders, despite their small size.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Good question!

As to: 'Another thing that confuses me is this statement on the website: "116dB Max SPL per speaker @1m (weighted pink noise)"
I don't know exactly what that means. But if it's a common descriptor that audiophiles understand then there's no reason to change it.'

I do not know if that is a common descriptor for audiophiles (at one time there was an SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter that seemed to be common) but it is a correct descriptor
and I think that I know what it means.

SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter is to indicate system sensitivity (and is often exaggerated by manufacturers), not maximum SPL. You can however calculate max SPL from this if you know how much power the speakers can handle. A sensitivity specification doesn't give as much sense on an active speaker. If you still were to give this, it would be twice as high as most bookshelf speakers. Which again begins to explain how they can play so loud.

I believe that the main jist of it is that is the Maximum SPL possible with 1 speaker is: ([in this case 116db] {feeding it more power will not make it louder: but bad things may happen if you continue adding power to 1 speaker that has reached this SPL level]}).

They have built-in limiters and built-in amps, so feeting them more power is not possible.

However, if you have a second speaker in the same room as the first speaker, with the same amount of power, playing the same thing, the room will most likely be louder than if it was just the one speaker.
How much louder is highly room dependent.

Of course, I could be mistaken. My wife tells me that has happened before.

Typically 5-6dB louder with two compared to one.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Thank you @CinamonRolls for reviving this thread, and to @Jim Taylor who reached out to me privately with some comments. I've now made several adjustments to the text and presentation on our website for both the SBS.1 and Manta system to further emphasize that these are not just "speakers with subs" but integrated systems. Product images have also been adjusted to actually include pictures of the full system with subwoofers when selecting the different options. The option of purchasing the speakers without subs have been removed.

This was always going to be an inherently complicated system to sell and market, but all feedback to ensure the messaging is as effective as possible is very helpful!

 

[EJ3]

SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter is to indicate system sensitivity (and is often exaggerated by manufacturers), not maximum SPL. You can however calculate max SPL from this if you know how much power the speakers can handle. A sensitivity specification doesn't give as much sense on an active speaker. If you still were to give this, it would be twice as high as most bookshelf speakers. Which again begins to explain how they can play so loud.




They have built-in limiters and built-in amps, so feeting them more power is not possible.



Typically 5-6dB louder with two compared to one.

I forgot that they are active & you can't feed them more power.

SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter is to indicate system sensitivity (and is often exaggerated by manufacturers):
I would say, based on things that I have seen since 1974: MORE OFTEN THAN NOT exaggerated by manufacturers.

I knew that 2 would be higher than one but had know idea of the "how much higher?" range. I was thinking 3-5db louder

 

[sigbergaudio]

I forgot that they are active & you can't feed them more power.

SPL at 1 watt at 1 meter is to indicate system sensitivity (and is often exaggerated by manufacturers):
I would say, based on things that I have seen since 1974: MORE OFTEN THAN NOT exaggerated by manufacturers.

I knew that 2 would be higher than one but had know idea of the "how much higher?" range. I was thinking 3-5db louder

You get ~3dB increase in sensitivity / efficiency when you double the number of drivers, and another ~3dB when you double the amplifier power (each speaker has their own amplifier).

 

[RayDunzl]

I added a silhouette of a guy standing in the illustration next to the item and didn't get any more complaints like that. "Typical floor stander" for size is good but not as universally intuitive as a person.

That's true.

Here's a guy standing with his hand on top of my floorstanders (mine have black siderails).

Two way cross at 180Hz, no real need for a sub.

Maybe he's a short guy.

 

[kma100]

@sigbergaudio I like your comment that this is a "system". My other observation is that you need to emphasize thar this is more than satellite speakers + sub for the low frequencies, i.e. an expensive version of Bose or Orb Audio. Maybe the ease of integration of the subs, low "guesswork" or painstaking move-and-measure-and-repeat...anything that shows the value of blending the subs with the speakers and the benefits of not having to collocate. Might be difficult to have in a sentence so maybe showcase in 1-2 paragraphs somewhere?

 

[sigbergaudio]

@sigbergaudio I like your comment that this is a "system". My other observation is that you need to emphasize thar this is more than satellite speakers + sub for the low frequencies, i.e. an expensive version of Bose or Orb Audio. Maybe the ease of integration of the subs, low "guesswork" or painstaking move-and-measure-and-repeat...anything that shows the value of blending the subs with the speakers and the benefits of not having to collocate. Might be difficult to have in a sentence so maybe showcase in 1-2 paragraphs somewhere?

I feel like I have tried to do that, have you checked out the product page, do you still not get that impression from it?

SBS.1 Active Speaker system

SBS.1 is an active speaker high end studio monitor. High end audio made in Norway. premium active speakers

www.sigbergaudio.com

 

[kma100]

Ah I haven't looked recently....will do so later.

 

[EJ3]

Thank you @CinamonRolls for reviving this thread, and to @Jim Taylor who reached out to me privately with some comments. I've now made several adjustments to the text and presentation on our website for both the SBS.1 and Manta system to further emphasize that these are not just "speakers with subs" but integrated systems. Product images have also been adjusted to actually include pictures of the full system with subwoofers when selecting the different options. The option of purchasing the speakers without subs have been removed.

This was always going to be an inherently complicated system to sell and market, but all feedback to ensure the messaging is as effective as possible is very helpful!

Yes!
I run my pair of home built Dual voice coil 4 OHM (operating in a 4 OHM configuration [each powered by a bridged mono NAD 2200 operating in 4 OHM]) downward firing ported subs (FR 20HZ-80HZ).
On top of them, I have my Dahlquist M-905s (on a pad used to set the corners of shipping containers on for vibration dampening [and since my floors are suspended wood floors, I have 4 of these shipping container pad under each sub leg, forming a large shipping container square to reduce the sub output from being directly into the floor structure). Between the upper sub "vibration damper" & the Dahlquist's I put a 3.5 degree wedge angling them slightly upward. They are powered by one NAD 2200 running in 4 OHM stereo)
Yes! An inherently complicated system.
Most folks that come over just think "Wow, that sounds great!" Not many look into why it sounds great.
(mine has worked very well for me since 1990).
I can imagine that yours is Much, Much better.
Especially with the active amplification, modern technology and todays EQ ability.

 

[CinamonRolls]

I feel like I have tried to do that, have you checked out the product page, do you still not get that impression from it?

SBS.1 Active Speaker system

SBS.1 is an active speaker high end studio monitor. High end audio made in Norway. premium active speakers

www.sigbergaudio.com

Ideally, how many subs would you recommend? I don't know anything about marketing but I'd personally understand Good, Better, Even Better, Best (1,2,3,4 subs).

I think that's an advantage over Salon2 and F328be. If I remember correctly Floyd Toole installed Salon2s then high passed them so he could use Welti's multi-sub. Shame to buy Salon2s only to high pass their low frequency performance . If you cross at 150Hz you cross at the same frequency of the Salon2s so you have similar - or more - diaphragm below 150Hz. If you cross at 90Hz you have smaller diaphragm between 90Hz and 150Hz. F328be would have more woofer diaphragm from 150Hz to 240Hz but maybe that isn't a big advantage at those frequencies. Regardless, it's native multi-sub vs buying floorstanders then adding subs to equalize low frequencies.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Ideally, how many subs would you recommend? I don't know anything about marketing but I'd personally understand Good, Better, Even Better, Best (1,2,3,4 subs).

I think that's an advantage over Salon2 and F328be. If I remember correctly Floyd Toole installed Salon2s then high passed them so he could use Welti's multi-sub. Shame to buy Salon2s only to high pass their low frequency performance . If you cross at 150Hz you cross at the same frequency of the Salon2s so you have similar - or more - diaphragm below 150Hz. If you cross at 90Hz you have smaller diaphragm between 90Hz and 150Hz. F328be would have more woofer diaphragm from 150Hz to 240Hz but maybe that isn't a big advantage at those frequencies. Regardless, it's native multi-sub vs buying floorstanders then adding subs to equalize low frequencies.

The recommended and default configuration is two subwoofers. This option has been marked as "Recommended" on the product page.

Additionally, we have a guide for this on the website, to help you both choose between our two models as well as consider the number of subs. https://www.sigbergaudio.com/pages/subwoofer-guide


There's a pretty big difference between buying a native system like this as opposed to purchasing "normal" speakers and high passing them, as the midbass / bass drivers in SBS.1 are a different type of driver. You also have two 5.5" in the same space that would typically only fit one, due to one of them being coaxial (thus further increasing capacity by a whopping 6dB due to dual drivers with individual amplifier modules). So they will be able to play much louder with lower compression and less thermal issues than a traditional woofer that is high passed. The 5.5" drivers in the SBS.1 also have twice the linear excursion than typical hifi midrange/midwoofer drivers.

In total it sums up to just a huge difference that is hard to understand until you experience it. When we do hifi shows with the SBS.1 + subs and play 110dB uncompressed at the listening position with those "tiny shoeboxes" people just look at each other in disbelief.

 

[Purité Audio]

They really are astonishing loudspeakers, I use one 12”Inkognito with my pair and in a smallish room the bass is more than adequate!
Keith