The New Sennheiser HD600 vs the Old Sennheiser HD600?

[Robbo99999]

As the title says, I'm curious to know if there are any established sound differences between the new HD600 (https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/best-audio-headphones-high-end-stereo-hifi-hd-600 ) that was relaunched with new cosmetic looks in late 2019 vs the old and somewhat fugly HD600 (https://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/pr...n-back-hifi-headphones-with-replaceable-cable ) that we loved & hated with the blue marbling?

I'm really talking about if there are any differences in the sound between them, including the frequency response? The reason I ask this is because I put in an order today for the new HD600 and part of my reasoning for doing this is that I want to use an Oratory1990 Harman EQ on a decent & affordable open backed headphone. I currently have the AKG K702 which does not have a measured Oratory1990 EQ on it, instead it has my own modified EQ based on AKG K702 Anniversary Edition EQ from Oratory1990, and I know it's a bit off from comparing to my Harman EQ'd JBL 308p Mkii's and also my NAD HP50 Oratory1990 EQ'd headphones. Yeah, so I wanted to buy a pair of quality open backed headphones that could be Oratory1990 EQ'd, as he indeed does have an EQ profile for the Sennheiser HD600 - but do you know if his EQ is based on the new version or the old version of the HD600, and as you can see that links into my main question of whether the new version of the HD600 has a different sound signature/frequency response compared to the old HD600.

Any folks got some news or ideas on this, I tried googling and came up with a few things, but nothing too conclusive....I wanted to tap the experienced minds here (well anyone who wants to respond too)? It doesn't seem we have a thread here on old vs new HD600.

EDIT: I did just now find this thread here on ASR on the topic that so happens to be created yesterday, but no answers at that thread:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd600-2019-edition.14663/

 

[Bob-23]

When recommending the HD600 (an old favourite of mine) to a friend last year, I asked in the local Sennheiser Store here in Berlin: there's absolutely no sound change in the new HD600, they've only 'modernized' the design. I've the K702, too, and if you've got the exact oratory values, I'd be interested in them.

 

[Robbo99999]

When recommending the HD600 (an old favourite of mine) to a friend last year, I asked in the local Sennheiser Store here in Berlin: there's absolutely no sound change in the new HD600, they've only 'modernized' the design. I've the K702, too, and if you've got the exact oratory values, I'd be interested in them.

Well that's good to hear, because I'm buying it on the basis of it's past performance....sometimes I might wonder how much sales people know in stores, but do you trust their knowledge of the technical enough to think they're 100% correct?

I don't have the Oratory1990 values for the K702 because he's only done the Anniversary Edition one so far, but I'll probably send him my K702 for measuring once my HD600 arrives, so I'll update you when I've got it done....then the pdf will be available on his website.

 

[Bob-23]

you trust their knowledge of the technical enough to think they're 100% correct?

It's Sennheiser's central store - not any department store... But nonetheless, just've phoned up Thomann's for a 'second opinion': the man in the headphone department said the speakers remained the same, only the design got changed. I asked: definitely? He answered: definitely.

 

[Dialectic]

As the title says, I'm curious to know if there are any established sound differences between the new HD600 (https://en-uk.sennheiser.com/best-audio-headphones-high-end-stereo-hifi-hd-600 ) that was relaunched with new cosmetic looks in late 2019 vs the old and somewhat fugly HD600 (https://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/pr...n-back-hifi-headphones-with-replaceable-cable ) that we loved & hated with the blue marbling?

I'm really talking about if there are any differences in the sound between them, including the frequency response? The reason I ask this is because I put in an order today for the new HD600 and part of my reasoning for doing this is that I want to use an Oratory1990 Harman EQ on a decent & affordable open backed headphone. I currently have the AKG K702 which does not have a measured Oratory1990 EQ on it, instead it has my own modified EQ based on AKG K702 Anniversary Edition EQ from Oratory1990, and I know it's a bit off from comparing to my Harman EQ'd JBL 308p Mkii's and also my NAD HP50 Oratory1990 EQ'd headphones. Yeah, so I wanted to buy a pair of quality open backed headphones that could be Oratory1990 EQ'd, as he indeed does have an EQ profile for the Sennheiser HD600 - but do you know if his EQ is based on the new version or the old version of the HD600, and as you can see that links into my main question of whether the new version of the HD600 has a different sound signature/frequency response compared to the old HD600.

Any folks got some news or ideas on this, I tried googling and came up with a few things, but nothing too conclusive....I wanted to tap the experienced minds here (well anyone who wants to respond too)? It doesn't seem we have a thread here on old vs new HD600.

EDIT: I did just now find this thread here on ASR on the topic that so happens to be created yesterday, but no answers at that thread:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd600-2019-edition.14663/

I associate the old design with recording studio excellence. I haven't found a pair of phones that I enjoy listening to as much as my 18-year-old HD600s.

 

[Robbo99999]

It's Sennheiser's central store - not any department store... But nonetheless, just've phoned up Thomann's for a 'second opinion': the man in the headphone department said the speakers remained the same, only the design got changed. I asked: definitely? He answered: definitely.

Thanks man, I definitely appreciate you going the extra mile to do that, thanks. I'd say it's very very likely that we have a definitive answer now.... beyond actually taking the step of getting them measured.

 

[Robbo99999]

I associate the old design with recording studio excellence. I haven't found a pair of phones that I enjoy living to as much as my 18-year-old HD600s.

Well I'm definitely looking forward to them! I'm hearing many good things about them. Do you EQ them at all? Have you heard about some of the discussions on relatively high harmonic distortion in the sub 100Hz when played at either very high volumes or when the bass has been EQ'd up? What's your own experience on that? (Here's some measurements related: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd600-2/ ). I'm gonna be using the Oratory1990 Harman EQ and he gives a 5dB Low Shelf from 105Hz....I generally don't listen loud so shouldn't be a problem I don't think but it's something I'm gonna keep my ear on when they arrive.

 

[Robbo99999]

Well my HD600 arrived on Friday. I've listened to them both stock and with Oratory1990 Harman Curve EQ as well as experimented with my own EQ's and after a bit of twisted journey I've settled on the Oratory1990 EQ. The headphones do sound amazing at stock though and are the best sounding headphones I've ever experienced straight out of the box. I describe at the following post a bit more detail on my impressions, etc: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nnheiser-hd600-2019-edition.14663/post-460271

I'm very happy with the HD600 and they would be at the top of my recommendation list.

 

[cistercian]

There was a short time when the HD 600 was 239 dollars on Amazon. This is a few years ago now. I bought
3 of them. One for each of my girls and one for me. I pray they never discontinue them. They are my reference
and even though they are not perfect, I am delighted with them and find them a must own for any audio aficionado.

They are truly excellent and I recommend them to those who want "serious" phones as well!

 

[Robbo99999]

There was a short time when the HD 600 was 239 dollars on Amazon. This is a few years ago now. I bought
3 of them. One for each of my girls and one for me. I pray they never discontinue them. They are my reference
and even though they are not perfect, I am delighted with them and find them a must own for any audio aficionado.

They are truly excellent and I recommend them to those who want "serious" phones as well!

Yeah, I looked on camel price tracker here in the UK and yes the HD600 were a lot cheaper back then....praps they've gained in popularity, increased in demand so they can increase the price. Maybe it's gained legendary status that it didn't have a few years ago....I wonder if any of it has to do with Oratory1990 measuring them and him releasing really good & accurate EQ profiles that shows HD600 in a great light both at stock and when EQ'd, maybe other sites and reviewers have given them a lot of praise the last couple of years as other sites have started measuring headphones too. It feels that there is a lot more transparency in the audio world now, so perhaps people are more informed and hence know & can buy with confidence good headphones like the HD600 rather than wasting their money on overpriced rubbish.....the cream rising to the top so to speak, lol!

 

[Jimbob54]

Yeah, I looked on camel price tracker here in the UK and yes the HD600 were a lot cheaper back then....praps they've gained in popularity, increased in demand so they can increase the price. Maybe it's gained legendary status that it didn't have a few years ago....I wonder if any of it has to do with Oratory1990 measuring them and him releasing really good & accurate EQ profiles that shows HD600 in a great light both at stock and when EQ'd, maybe other sites and reviewers have given them a lot of praise the last couple of years as other sites have started measuring headphones too. It feels that there is a lot more transparency in the audio world now, so perhaps people are more informed and hence know & can buy with confidence good headphones like the HD600 rather than wasting their money on overpriced rubbish.....the cream rising to the top so to speak, lol!

Looks like I paid £250 6 years ago but that was amazon warehouse deals so I suspect £300-£350 full price back then. I recall them being somewhat legendary back then.

I'm not sure the Hd600 need Oratory or anyone elses help to be popular. But having a variant that has sold 100k on Massdrop (which might be too expensive to export outside USA) cant hurt either.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yeah, actually after looking a bit more carefully of the price history of HD600 here in UK on Amazon, it hasn't changed that much since 2010 on average, and you've also got a bit of inflation to calculate into that, but I would say from casually looking at that graph that they've not got cheaper anyway even if inflation taken into account I guesstimate. 2014 through 2016 was a great time to buy them, I wonder what happened around 2017 that made price shoot up though.

EDIT: Actually, putting an eyeballed trendline through the above price history this is what I got:

So we could say average price trend has gone from about £220 to £300 since 2010 to present day. That's 10 yrs, so lets see what inflation is compounded over that 10 yr period, I found this Bank of England inflation calculator (https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator ), and here is the result of £220 price in 2010 compounded in inflation through to 2019:

And the £284 calculated for inflation above is actually bang on accurate for the red trend line if you look at 2019. So yeah, HD600 is not decreasing in real value at all over the years here in the UK and is actually going up in price on average at the same rate as inflation. For a normal product you might expect it to decrease in real price as the years go buy as new models supercede the old ones, however it's my opinion that the legendary status of HD600 has kept it at the same price despite new products coming to market.

 

[solderdude]

Prices of HD600 and HD650 have been going up and down for many years.
This was already the case over 20 years ago and still is happening today.

Maybe it has something to do with Sennheiser stock ? No idea.
The price on average is rising so inflation will be the most likely candidate for price increase.

I remember prices of DT880 varying over the years as well.

The qualities of the HD600 and HD650 have been documented over the years. Tyll measured these long ago and the quality has been discussed over many years. This most certainly is not something recent. There is also much competition and the HD6** are relatively cheap now. 15 Years ago they were TOTL and considered expensive, now they are considered cheap.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yeah, actually after looking a bit more carefully of the price history of HD600 here in UK on Amazon, it hasn't changed that much since 2010 on average, and you've also got a bit of inflation to calculate into that, but I would say from casually looking at that graph that they've not got cheaper anyway even if inflation taken into account I guesstimate. 2014 through 2016 was a great time to buy them, I wonder what happened around 2017 that made price shoot up though.
View attachment 75547
EDIT: Actually, putting an eyeballed trendline through the above price history this is what I got:
View attachment 75550
So we could say average price trend has gone from about £220 to £300 since 2010 to present day. That's 10 yrs, so lets see what inflation is compounded over that 10 yr period, I found this Bank of England inflation calculator (https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator ), and here is the result of £220 price in 2010 compounded in inflation through to 2019:
View attachment 75551
And the £284 calculated for inflation above is actually bang on accurate for the red trend line if you look at 2019. So yeah, HD600 is not decreasing in real value at all over the years here in the UK and is actually going up in price on average at the same rate as inflation. For a normal product you might expect it to decrease in real price as the years go buy as new models supercede the old ones, however it's my opinion that the legendary status of HD600 has kept it at the same price despite new products coming to market.

Actually - you cant buy HD600 from Amazon- only 3rd party via amazon- I think this has been the case for some time. £350 or thereabouts at the minute .

Amazon's own price on items seems to vary depending on other retailers sales and also their stock levels - find some premium items with low stock and you might get a bargain as they seem to discount the last couple.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yeah, I got mine for £308 a few weeks ago when they had only 2 left, so I think I saved a little by doing that.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yeah, I got mine for £308 a few weeks ago when they had only 2 left, so I think I saved a little by doing that.

Amazon own stock or 3rd party seller? Everytime I look it's only 3rd party

 

[Robbo99999]

Amazon own stock or 3rd party seller? Everytime I look it's only 3rd party

Yep, 3rd party, bought through Amazon - it came from Italy or something, didn't realise it was from Italy when I pressed the buy button!

 

[robertozappala]

www.recordcase.de 309 €

https://www.recordcase.de/search?sSearch=hd+600

 

[Robbo99999]

When recommending the HD600 (an old favourite of mine) to a friend last year, I asked in the local Sennheiser Store here in Berlin: there's absolutely no sound change in the new HD600, they've only 'modernized' the design. I've the K702, too, and if you've got the exact oratory values, I'd be interested in them.

Hi, I hadn't forgotten your post & your interest in K702 Oratory EQ. I did indeed contact Oratory recently re me sending in my K702 for testing and he was receptive at first, but I mentioned that my earpads were old & misshapen and after showing him pics of them I didn't hear back from him, lol - I don't think he liked what he saw! Well, yeah, if the pads are misshapen they're molded to the shape of my head now and might not fit his mannequin well, plus there is a strong argument that you would want to measure the pads as close as possible to new to get the most relevant result (afterall my pads are 5yrs old and I wore them everyday for hours).

However, I did some research recently and Jaakkpasanen has updated his AutoEQ project with target curves calibrated to the Harman Curve from "all" measurement sources (eg Innerfidelity, RTings, etc) - which means he's compared headphone measurements between Oratory (the Harman standard if you will) with say Innerfidelity's measurements of the same headphones and looked for where the differences lie....and thereby has managed to create a calibrated Target Curve for Innerfidelity (& others like RTings) that should be pretty close the same result you'd get if Oratory had measured the headphone and applied it to the Harman Curve. I had heard of this project before, but it seems only in the last 6 months or so that he's calibrated the target curves in the manner I've described, thereby making any EQ from the measurements more accurate. So I've EQ'd my K702 using this philosophy, I've taken the Innerfidelity measurements of the K702 and applied them to the calibrated Innerfidelity Harman Curve using my own EQ - in my listening I do think it is the most accurate EQ yet, and is pleasurable to listen to.....when I say it's accurate I mean that it sounds very similar to my 2 other properly Harman EQ'd headphones (NAD HP50 & Sennheiser HD600 from Oratory measurements) as well as sounding similar to my Harman Curve Room EQ'd JBL 308p Mkii Speakers. Feel free to try out my Harman Curve EQ for the K702, you'll need to apply a negative preamp of -4.8dB to go with these filters, managed to get it pretty much spot on to the target curve whilst using low Q filters (not sharp filters):

K702 Harman Curve EQ (using the calibrated to Oratory Innerfidelity Harman Curve):

And here's the website where I got the measurements from if you've not heard of Jaakkopasanen:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

EDIT: after doing a load of fps gaming this afternoon with virtual 7.1 surround sound through these EQ'd K702 I gotta say it's super good for locating sounds in 3D space, I think the EQ combined with the fantastic spacial properties of the K702 along with the good implementation of 7.1 virtual sound through my SoundblasterX G6 DAC. I've also listened to some music with this new EQ extensively today (stereo of course not virtual 7.1), and the imaging is fantastic, they don't sound like headphones to me......this is the best headphone experience I've ever had and I can compare to Sennheiser HD600 and NAD HP50. The bass is more defined in the K702 than the HD600 and also there is way better soundstage/imaging, also a smoother headphone and less harsh, with enough detail though. I think with this EQ the AKG K702 is now my favourite headphone and the best headphone experience I've ever had.....sorry, had to put this out there, very pleased with the result, funnily enough these were the first proper headphones I've ever bought, way back in 2015!

 

[Svperstar]

The HD580 uses the same driver as the 600. I had two pairs of 580s at one point and I didn't hear much difference between the old driver and new driver. I guess people seek out the old 580/600 drivers but mine developed a rattle so I replaced them with the 650 drivers since they were cheaper.