The New Sennheiser HD600 vs the Old Sennheiser HD600?

[infinitesymphony]

The 600s have long been the standard reference point for flat frequency response, so that news is good to hear.

When the HD 560S are more readily available I'll be curious to hear more opinions about how these stack up to other 5- and 6-series headphones that are designed for flat frequency response (580, 600, 660S?). Could the 560S be the test balloon that will eventually lead to angled drivers throughout the range?

 

[Bob-23]

Hi, I hadn't forgotten your post & your interest in K702 Oratory EQ. I did indeed contact Oratory recently re me sending in my K702 for testing and he was receptive at first, but I mentioned that my earpads were old & misshapen and after showing him pics of them I didn't hear back from him, lol - I don't think he liked what he saw! Well, yeah, if the pads are misshapen they're molded to the shape of my head now and might not fit his mannequin well, plus there is a strong argument that you would want to measure the pads as close as possible to new to get the most relevant result (afterall my pads are 5yrs old and I wore them everyday for hours).

However, I did some research recently and Jaakkpasanen has updated his AutoEQ project with target curves calibrated to the Harman Curve from "all" measurement sources (eg Innerfidelity, RTings, etc) - which means he's compared headphone measurements between Oratory (the Harman standard if you will) with say Innerfidelity's measurements of the same headphones and looked for where the differences lie....and thereby has managed to create a calibrated Target Curve for Innerfidelity (& others like RTings) that should be pretty close the same result you'd get if Oratory had measured the headphone and applied it to the Harman Curve. I had heard of this project before, but it seems only in the last 6 months or so that he's calibrated the target curves in the manner I've described, thereby making any EQ from the measurements more accurate. So I've EQ'd my K702 using this philosophy, I've taken the Innerfidelity measurements of the K702 and applied them to the calibrated Innerfidelity Harman Curve using my own EQ - in my listening I do think it is the most accurate EQ yet, and is pleasurable to listen to.....when I say it's accurate I mean that it sounds very similar to my 2 other properly Harman EQ'd headphones (NAD HP50 & Sennheiser HD600 from Oratory measurements) as well as sounding similar to my Harman Curve Room EQ'd JBL 308p Mkii Speakers. Feel free to try out my Harman Curve EQ for the K702, you'll need to apply a negative preamp of -4.8dB to go with these filters, managed to get it pretty much spot on to the target curve whilst using low Q filters (not sharp filters):

K702 Harman Curve EQ (using the calibrated to Oratory Innerfidelity Harman Curve):
View attachment 86192

And here's the website where I got the measurements from if you've not heard of Jaakkopasanen:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

Thanks for telling me - I'll try it out these days! And, I know jaakkopasanen's site, haven't visited it for a while; I tried out the old K702 settings, wasn't totally convinced, and preferred the Oratory1990 for the K702 Anniversary (though not being fully adequate). But these new settings may change the game...

You may ask Oratory again, in case you think of renewing your pads (Thomann); of course, if they are totally worn out, that'd influence FR.

Meanwhile, I got satisfying results by simply applying Baxandall EQ: a variable low shelf and a variable high shelf, only 2 knobs. Dialing down the high shelf, more or less, and leaving bass response as it is, is often sufficient - can be done while listening, in immediate reaction to the character, instrumentation and quality (of the mastering/mixing) of the recording.

 

[Bob-23]

The 600s have long been the standard reference point for flat frequency response, so that news is good to hear.

When the HD 560S are more readily available I'll be curious to hear more opinions about how these stack up to other 5- and 6-series headphones that are designed for flat frequency response (580, 600, 660S?). Could the 560S be the test balloon that will eventually lead to angled drivers throughout the range?

Just had a phone call with the Sennheiser Store in town, they've just got the 560s today. The guy told me, they tried them out - and he was reminded of the HD800s, soundstagewise. Sounds interesting!

Btw. Fidelio X2HR also have angled drivers (50mm) - I like very much their sound stage/imaging.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Just had a phone call with the Sennheiser Store in town, they've just got the 560s today. The guy told me, they tried them out - and he was reminded of the HD800s, soundstagewise. Sounds interesting!

That's what @solderdude mentioned in his review:

"The treble is different than the HD6xx series and more elevated. The angle of the driver has something to do with this. Upper mids/lower treble is elevated at around 4.5kHz. This is not high enough to cause sibilance but does make the treble a bit coarser and sharpish. This can be ‘fixed’ though which makes the treble smoother.

The stereo imaging, which is known to be a bit narrow in the HD6xx series, is substantially wider and almost reaching HD800 territory. The HD560S is more dynamic/lively than the HD6xx and HD5xx series. Because of the wide stereo image this headphone is quite suited for gaming as well (but is an open headphone without a microphone)."

 

[Robbo99999]

Thanks for telling me - I'll try it out these days! And, I know jaakkopasanen's site, haven't visited it for a while; I tried out the old K702 settings, wasn't totally convinced, and preferred the Oratory1990 for the K702 Anniversary (though not being fully adequate). But these new settings may change the game...

You may ask Oratory again, in case you think of renewing your pads (Thomann); of course, if they are totally worn out, that'd influence FR.

Meanwhile, I got satisfying results by simply applying Baxandall EQ: a variable low shelf and a variable high shelf, only 2 knobs. Dialing down the high shelf, more or less, and leaving bass response as it is, is often sufficient - can be done while listening, in immediate reaction to the character, instrumentation and quality (of the mastering/mixing) of the recording.

Thanks re the advice of getting the new earpads from Thomann, are they genuine AKG pads for the K702? I don't think I'll get them at the moment because I'm very happy with that EQ I did based on that "Calibrated Harman Curve" from Jaakopasanen based on Innerfidelity measurements. I too had tried the Innerfidelity measurements before, but didn't like them, however this new Target Curve combined with my own EQ has made these headphones very accurate....very very similar to my Harman Curve Room EQ'd JBL 308p Mkii speakers.....and I'm very impressed with the imaging & soundstage of the K702 after having been listening almost exclusively to my Sennheiser HD600 & NAD HP50 for the past 3 months. So K702 with this EQ is now my favourite headphone.

 

[Bob-23]

earpads from Thomann, are they genuine AKG pads for the K702

The pads are original - ordered something else, yesterday, and asked them. 8£ shipping to England (free shipping when ordering above 99£/ 3 years warranty). Yes, K702's soundstage and imaging is great - they are grossly underestimated, I think their major fault is their (now so) low price (but let's not say that too loud.) But, of course, the want high quality recordings.

Haven't tried your settings yet - have just transcribed them.

 

[Robbo99999]

The pads are original - ordered something else, yesterday, and asked them. 8£ shipping to England (free shipping when ordering above 99£/ 3 years warranty). Yes, K702's soundstage and imaging is great - they are grossly underestimated, I think their major fault is their (now so) low price (but let's not say that too loud.) But, of course, the want high quality recordings.

Haven't tried your settings yet - have just transcribed them.

Thanks for asking the Thomann folks if they are genuine pads....cool, they're genuine, I'll definitely order some more from there when my earpads are on the way out, at the moment I think they're ok. I might get a set slightly before I really need them replaced, just in case they stop selling them (as the K702 gets older & older, although I guess they'd still continue selling them at least as long as the K702 is on the market).

Did you understand the format of my filters ok from my pic? For instance HSQ is a High Shelf Filter with a modifiable Q Value....and in my EQ I set that as Q Value 1.0 (which is not the "standard" slope for a High Shelf). Well let me know what you think to the EQ, if you like the Headphone Harman Curve then you'll probably like the EQ.

 

[Bob-23]

let me know

The settings are good, I find them only slightly different to the settings of my old jaakopasanen & of Oratory1990 K702 Anniversary - and it depends on the titles I play: in titles with a rough edge your settings add a slight warmth, which is then wellcomed. In titles which are a bit veiled, I might prefer one of the other ones - but differences are small.

I didn't compare it to the setting I actually use (and of which I'm quite satisfied) : the Baxandall EQ, mostly only reducing the highshelf, maybe adding a little bit bass, often just letting it as it is. At the moment, I'm not in the mood of arranging a valid AB-comparison (with my switch box), and that would be necessary in order to reach significant results. Slight differences you only recognize if you switch instantaneously, plugging-in and -out already takes too long...

But your settings are alright.

 

[Bogart99]

Having had various Sennheiser phones over the years, and looking for a set now only fair I include them in my shortlist. Particularly interested in the comments here about the HD600. I then came across this site
https://customcans.co.uk/s/s/index.php/headphones/balancedheadphones/modified-hd600.html
Is this mod valid or is it a bit snake oily. I like the idea the phones can have a balanced output for very little extra. Have a Musical Fidelity MX-HPA
amp or soon will have. Do the balanced outputs warrant going for with a 3m cable?

 

[solderdude]

The HD600 is balanced. You just need a balanced cable for it or reterminate the original cable with a balanced connector.
The HD6xx series (even the HD560S) has a 4 wire cable.

The 'massloading' effect is questionable. Changing the rear damping alters the bass. Less damping is closer to HD650.

 

[Jimbob54]

Having had various Sennheiser phones over the years, and looking for a set now only fair I include them in my shortlist. Particularly interested in the comments here about the HD600. I then came across this site
https://customcans.co.uk/s/s/index.php/headphones/balancedheadphones/modified-hd600.html
Is this mod valid or is it a bit snake oily. I like the idea the phones can have a balanced output for very little extra. Have a Musical Fidelity MX-HPA
amp or soon will have. Do the balanced outputs warrant going for with a 3m cable?

3m shouldn't be a problem for single ended. No idea how audible the driver mods would be, the padding mods speak for themselves in the charts.

If you needed the extra power balanced gives I'm reasonably sure you could achieve similar results to these by getting a cheaper after market balanced cable (plenty around) and use tissue or other fabric to play around with in the cups. Depends how much you could get a set of hd600 for.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I didn't know that headphones could have an output these days. I always thought they connected to the output of an amplifier.

Anyway, the cables they're selling there seem ludicrously fat - 18AWG equivalent, good lord. One of my favorite aspects of Sennheiser's original cables is how light and comfy they are. With 300 ohm cans in balanced mode, massive conductors are about the last thing on your priority list. Does anyone just reterminate original cables with XLRs by any chance?

 

[Bogart99]

The MX-HPA has 2 x 3pin for the balanced arrangement and one of my thoughts was that the cable will not be particularly small in csa.

 

[solderdude]

Does anyone just reterminate original cables with XLRs by any chance?

Not for HD6## cables (though possible) but did reterminate for HD560S because I wanted a shorter cable. That cable is a nightmare to solder (litze) and to get a decent stress relief in 3.5mm plugs.

 

[maverickronin]

Anyway, the cables they're selling there seem ludicrously fat - 18AWG equivalent, good lord. One of my favorite aspects of Sennheiser's original cables is how light and comfy they are. With 300 ohm cans in balanced mode, massive conductors are about the last thing on your priority list. Does anyone just reterminate original cables with XLRs by any chance?

Reterminating HD650 cables is practically a hobby for me now.

I have ones reterminated to 1/8" TRS and 4 pin XLR.

Since it's so supple and non-microphonic I've also reterminated the headphone ends of spare HD650 cables to use with my Aeon Closed 2 and HD800. Both of their stock cables are ergonomic disasters in comparison.

Like @solderdude mentioned the litz can be a hassle. On each "side" of the cable you need to pick apart the ground and signal wires by the color of the enamel coating.

 

[jaytrinitron]

Hey all,

Question regarding the new hd600 packaging: Did those of you who got a 2019 version notice whether the headphone cable was unplugged from the headphone?
I've only been able to find unboxing information on the 650 but it seems the 650 comes with the cable plugged in (my 600 didn't). Asking because I just received my supposedly new hd600 from Amazon USA (sold by Amazon also, although I have heard they occasionally will ship returned/open box items as new) and certain things seem to be off. The packaging is really poor and very easy to open, which I expected, and slightly damaged (the headphone appears fine). The damage and haphazard way the headphone, wire, and manual were strewn around in the box most likely happened in shipping, but the headphone also has a funny smell (quite pleasant actually, reminds me of a clean hotel room) that might be someone else's shampoo, although it appears a bit strong for that and could just be the way the foam smells from the factory.

Just wondering if there are other owners who could clue me in on whether these details are normal or not. Another thing that worries me is I ordered these a little over a week ago (they were on backorder) and now prices are over 30% higher...

 

[DeepShadow]

For me, it was included in the set and connected to the headphones themselves ...

 

[solderdude]

It's Bulgarian for:
For me, it was included in the set and connected to the headphones themselves ...

 

[DeepShadow]

Thank you...fixed.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hey @Bob-23 , I remembered you were interested in a K702 Oratory measurement, well I sent off my K702 to him today! I'll let you know when Oratory has published the measurement.