Subwoofer or not?

[Klint]

In a home cinema system with large fronts, do one need a subwoofer?
Today in theory my fronts play deeper than my sub, should i let i go?

Thanks

 

[sweetchaos]

What speakers were you thinking of?
Do they play down to 10hz? Because subs can. Plus you can position multiple subs (say in corners or in mid-way of walls) for best in-room response, while towers are seldom in the best place for best bass.

 

[Eetu]

In a home cinema system with large fronts, do one need a subwoofer?
Today in theory my fronts play deeper than my sub, should i let i go?

Thanks

If your fronts go down to 20 Hz effortlessly and you mostly need one sweet spot, no.

But in practice, there are very few speakers that produce 20 Hz at high SPL cleanly. And if you need smooth bass response throughout a larger area (big sofa, multiple rows of seats etc.) you need subs.

 

[Klint]

What speakers do you have?

Heco Dreiklang and my old Velodyne SPL1200Ultra.

 

[Klint]

If your fronts go down to 20 Hz effortlessly and you mostly need one sweet spot, no.

But in practice, there are very few speakers that produce 20 Hz at high SPL cleanly. And if you need smooth bass response throughout a larger area (big sofa, multiple rows of seats etc.) you need subs.

Thanks, i think the fronts would be able to handle the LFE. If fronts are relived of this they ofcourse could do their thing better. My question is has any of you guys done this, removed the sub and have any comments regarding doing so.

 

[richard12511]

Heco Dreiklang and my old Velodyne SPL1200Ultra.

Wow, those really are full range. 19Hz extension with 98dB efficiency. I would say you have a full range sound in those. However, the best spot for imaging is likely a bad spot for smooth bass. Smooth bass usually requires multiple subs spread around the room, but sometimes you can get lucky. Have you measured yet?

 

[Eetu]

Btw I recommend this video:

Lot of good info on the benefits of subs.

 

[richard12511]

Thanks, i think the fronts would be able to handle the LFE. If fronts are relived of this they ofcourse could do their thing better. My question is has any of you guys done this, removed the sub and have any comments regarding doing so.

I posted this in another thread, but I know a couple people with JTR 215RT for LCR, and both of them cross them over at 80Hz to a few(2-4) JTR Captivator 4000ULF subwoofers.

 

[Klint]

What speakers were you thinking of?
Do they play down to 10hz? Because subs can. Plus you can position multiple subs (say in corners or in mid-way of walls) for best in-room response, while towers are seldom in the best place for best bass.

Subs are super in helping bass performance. My Q is if any of you guys have tried doing without the sub and could share that experiance.

 

[Sancus]

If you want to play reference(115dB at or below 20hz required), subs may still be needed. At -10dB it's probably fine. I'm assuming you have an actual surround system.

Bass levels are often lower in stereo mixes than in the full Atmos/DTS ones, so in that case it may not matter.

 

[Klint]

Wow, those really are full range. 19Hz extension with 98dB efficiency. I would say you have a full range sound in those. However, the best spot for imaging is likely a bad spot for smooth bass. Smooth bass usually requires multiple subs spread around the room, but sometimes you can get lucky. Have you measured yet?

Not measured yet and realy not tried this out, will do so this "free" weekend.

 

[sweetchaos]

Subs are super in helping bass performance. My Q is if any of you guys have tried doing without the sub and could share that experiance.

I tried running my 3-way PSB towers (-3db point was at 30hz) at full range briefly. But once my AVR abruptly shut down during a movie, I got scared for my amplifier failing and bought a subwoofer the next day.

Update: I remember that clearly...the volume was -10db on Yamaha Aventage AVR. AVR was very cool, and that was a first movie that I played that day.
I must have seen hundred movies/TV shows after that incident, when I added a subwoofer to the setup, without problems since.

 

[sweetchaos]

Here's what another user posted, when he tried to play a deep bass soundtrack:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bass.18999/post-623363
"I killed my last Yamaha AVR trying to play that song. No sub either. Just a pair of JBL Arena 130 bookshelf speakers, played full range. Volume was set to -10 dB. The receiver shut down within the first 30 seconds and I was not able to revive it."

 

[Klint]

If you want to play reference(115dB at or below 20hz required), subs may still be needed. At -10dB it's probably fine. I'm assuming you have an actual surround system.

Bass levels are often lower in stereo mixes than in the full Atmos/DTS ones, so in that case it may not matter.

I have and do not watch moviesor litsen to music very "loud".

 

[Klint]

Wow, those really are full range. 19Hz extension with 98dB efficiency. I would say you have a full range sound in those. However, the best spot for imaging is likely a bad spot for smooth bass. Smooth bass usually requires multiple subs spread around the room, but sometimes you can get lucky. Have you measured yet?

Thanks, yes that is the thing for me. It will be at best 1 sub here soo i am not sure i should have one at all.

 

[richard12511]

Not measured yet and realy not tried this out, will do so this "free" weekend.

Do you have REW(Room EQ Wizard) yet?

Measuring will let you know for sure if you need subs. Also seeing the actual problems will let you fix them, which will come with a huge increase in the sound quality you hear.

If you're not familiar with it, we can help you get started with getting a MMM(moving mic measurement). Once you get familiar with REW, it should only take a few minutes.

 

[richard12511]

I have and do not watch moviesor litsen to music very "loud".

You actually have really good mains that actually dig down below 20Hz, which is very rare. If you don't listen super loud, you may not need additional subwoofers.

I would still measure to see what you're working with, though. Even if you don't need additional subs, you'll be able to EQ the bass region based on those measurements, and your speakers will sound much better.