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Speaker Phase alignment with AVR automatic calibration.

Have you experienced any issues with automatic speaker distance calibration with your AVR?

  • Yes. I fixed it manually every time I re-calibrate.

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Yes. I hear it now after reading this thread. I now fixed it.

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • No. My AVR does a perfect job.

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • No, but I'll have to check it out.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Who needs a calibration mic when you have vintage audio!

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • I would never make a mistake like this. It's handled by my awesome DSP solution.

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Total voters
    9

fieldcar

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During a recent Audyssey XT32 calibration, I noticed that even with MultiEQ-X and the ACM1-X calibrated mic, I was hearing odd prominence of center-vocals about ~30 degrees to the right of where they should be during the stereo mode on my Denon X3700H. A quick look at the distances resulted in a 0.2FT difference between the left and right channels in the AVR. After adjusting the numbers to match, I regained perfect center image. While this is primarily a home theater where this wouldn't be an issue, it's also my main music listening system.

I believe this is a substantial issue if you ever use your AVR for stereo music listening like I do. I recommend that if you have an AVR with a calibration mic, you verify the center image with a mono track playing on your front speakers. It's something that I believe that denon&audyssey should be catching as many people use their products for serious stereo listening.

If you have an AVR that perfectly handles this issue, let me know what model. I'm curious.
 
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HarmonicTHD

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During a recent Audyssey XT32 calibration, I noticed that even with MultiEQ-X and the ACM1-X calibrated mic, I was hearing odd prominence of center-vocals about ~30 degrees to the right of where they should be during the stereo mode on my Denon X3700H. A quick look at the distances resulted in a 0.2FT difference between the left and right channels in the AVR. After adjusting the numbers to match, I regained perfect center image. While this is primarily a home theater where this wouldn't be an issue, it's also my main music listening system.

I believe this is a substantial issue if you ever use your AVR for stereo music listening like I do. I recommend that if you have an AVR with a calibration mic, you verify the center image with a mono track playing on your front speakers. It's something that I believe that denon&audyssey should be catching as many people use their products for serious stereo listening.

If you have an AVR that perfectly handles this issue, let us know what model. I'm curious.
Dead center for me. Denon X3700 (incl IOS App and MultiEQX and standard calibration mic). The distances are within cm of the ones measured with a laser.

I would rather suspect the room for the effect you are seeing (but have no hard evidence).
Or did you check the voltage level at the speaker inputs just to eliminate the possibility of a channel disbalance?
 
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fieldcar

fieldcar

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Dead center for me. Denon X3700 (incl IOS App and MultiEQX). The distances are within cm of the ones measured with a laser.

I would rather suspect the room for the effect you are seeing (but have no hard evidence).
Or did you check the voltage level at the speaker inputs just to eliminate the possibility of a channel disbalance?
I think I may have to break out the laser to see if I've got something wrong with my layout. If I'm honest, I haven't done much more than throwing out the tape measure to ballpark it, and things may have moved outside of the equi-distant triangle arrangement.

I do think it's odd that the correction mic didn't catch this though. Maybe I had the mic angled or something else going on to throw off the timing. I do have an open stairway to the left of the listening area, while my right wall is flat.
 
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fieldcar

fieldcar

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Old pic with ugly green carpet. I've got 2X JBL 550P's to the inside of both 590's, and the 520C is now a single vertical JBL 530.
1655234921920.png
 

HarmonicTHD

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I think I may have to break out the laser to see if I've got something wrong with my layout. If I'm honest, I haven't done much more than throwing out the tape measure to ballpark it, and things may have moved outside of the equi-distant triangle arrangement.

I do think it's odd that the correction mic didn't catch this though. Maybe I had the mic angled or something else going on to throw off the timing. I do have an open stairway to the left of the listening area, while my right wall is flat.
Yes get a laser and confirm the levels (with Audyssey off). Just to be sure and eliminate it as causes.

What measuring distances between the 8 measurements did you use? Try a very tight pattern just to check, so the averaging isn’t throwing things off.

Yes your room looks not symmetrical and therefore I would also suspect non-symmetrical distances being measured by Audyssey to compensate. But one of the measures should be equal to whatever you measure with the laser, I would suspect.
 
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fieldcar

fieldcar

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What measuring distances between the 8 measurements did you use? Try a very tight pattern just to check, so the averaging isn’t throwing things off.
I tried to stay within 2FT of #1, but this may have been exceeded on 4-8. I have a feeling that this may have been the cause. I do also have a rectangular beam column about 3ft behind my left shoulder.

How tight of a pattern has worked best for you? I don't really care much about other seating positions.

Yes your room looks not symmetrical and therefore I would also suspect non-symmetrical distances being measured by Audyssey to compensate. But one of the measures should be equal to whatever you measure with the laser, I would suspect.
Ok. sounds good. I'll have to break out the laser tonight.


1655238050397.png
 
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GD Fan

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Yamaha A1080 never got it quite right and required a manual adjustment but the Denon 3700 nailed it on the first try.
 

HarmonicTHD

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I tried to stay within 2FT of #1, but this may have been exceeded on 4-8. I have a feeling that this may have been the cause. I do also have a rectangular beam column about 3ft behind my left shoulder.

How tight of a pattern has worked best for you? I don't really care much about other seating positions.


Ok. sounds good. I'll have to break out the laser tonight.


View attachment 212756
I also optimized for one seating position only and used 20cm (8in) and was quite precise with keeping the pattern.
 
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fieldcar

fieldcar

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Of course, my laser measuring tool eludes me!

I just re-tested with a ~12in area without any changes to the speaker positions. I think I need to get an adapter for my boom mic stand rather than using a photography tripod. You're right about measuring a tighter space, and it's considerably better this time around.

Thanks for the assistance. Once I track down the laser tool, I'll probably re-measure and post again.

1655262630966.png

1655262783172.png
 

Galz

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Distances and levels are determined by the 1st measurement only. It's important to make sure you measure it in a purely symmetrical way, and verify that the results were actually symmetrical. Otherwise - Try again. At least that's the best I managed to do, sometimes you think you've got the mic perfectly leveled and centered and the results end up saying otherwise, but eventually I managed to get Audyssey to agree that my system is as symmetrical as it can measure (identical distances and levels for left/right speakers).
 

DavidMcRoy

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In my limited experience with several models of AVRs from Denon, Pioneer and Yamaha, the built-in automatic speaker setup/"room calibration" systems yield a different set of results pretty much every time you run them. Often the results are wildly off. They may get phase wrong, distance way off, completely miss the presence of a correctly functioning speaker, etc. Obviously, they are all flawed and are of limited usefulness. I bought AudioTools and a calibrated mic to run measurements manually. I haven't had access to any better automated systems like Trinnov.
 
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