Sound United U 30 Update (Denon X3800H / X4800H / A1H, Marantz Cinema 50 / 40 / AV 10)

[napfkuchen]

The awaited update was announced for today. Here are some videos (unfortunately in German but maybe you can extract some info from the shown slides) about it:
Update U 30:

Dirac Live install:

Apart from the Dirac Live feature I am pleased to hear that Dolby is now also implementing the Auro3D-Setup with front and rear height speakers.

Upgrade webpages are live:

Dirac Live for Denon

Bring out the best in your Denon device with Dirac Live Room Correction or Bass Control. Explore now for a new world of audio excellence.

www.dirac.com

Dirac Live for Marantz

Bring out the best in your Marantz device with Dirac Live Room Correction or Bass Control. Explore now for optimal sound quality.

www.dirac.com

 

[ThELiZ]

Nice to see ART on the PowerPoint presentation. No idea what it says on there... Just wishful thinking that it must mean it's coming to at least the X3800H

 

[Music707]

And here is a first video from Masimo Consumer Training.

 

[napfkuchen]

Nice to see ART on the PowerPoint presentation. No idea what it says on there... Just wishful thinking that it must mean it's coming to at least the X3800H

The Masimo representative said that an ART upgrade is currently being tested and will be implemented depending on the sales figures for the current dirac options. Will be interesting to see how many customers are willing to pay for the upgrade compared to audessey. I also own a X3800H, ordered a UMIK-1 today and will get the full frequency band version. (The Masimo guy also said that UMIK-1 would be his choice and sufficient for room equlisation. No need for UMIK-2.)
My personal experience with the discontinued dirac windows-app and active speakers was very convincing. For ART my speakers are not powerful enough. Also I want to keep some peace with my neighbours and will stick one smaller sub.

 

[peng]

The Masimo representative said that an ART upgrade is currently being tested and will be implemented depending on the sales figures for the current dirac options. Will be interesting to see how many customers are willing to pay for the upgrade compared to audessey. I also own a X3800H, ordered a UMIK-1 today and will get the full frequency band version. (The Masimo guy also said that UMIK-1 would be his choice and sufficient for room equlisation. No need for UMIK-2.)
My personal experience with the discontinued dirac windows-app and active speakers was very convincing. For ART my speakers are not powerful enough. Also I want to keep some peace with my neighbours and will stick one smaller sub.

Even with one sub, you should still get the DLBC license. Without that, in the 15-200 Hz range (give or take), Audyssey with App could actually do better if you spend some time on tweaking. I am only talking about on paper though, that is, based on measurements only.

 

[napfkuchen]

Even with one sub, you should still get the DLBC license. Without that, in the 15-200 Hz range (give or take), Audyssey with App could actually do better if you spend some time on tweaking. I am only talking about on paper though, that is, based on measurements only.

OK thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[multisport4me]

Even with one sub, you should still get the DLBC license. Without that, in the 15-200 Hz range (give or take), Audyssey with App could actually do better if you spend some time on tweaking. I am only talking about on paper though, that is, based on measurements only.

"...if you spend some time on tweaking"

Precisely why I love DLBC. I have a limit to how much tweaking I have time to do or want to do. DLBC makes it stupid dumb easy and delivers excellent results. Perfect for dumbs guys like me.

I have the U30 firmware update loaded up on my AV10 - hoping to give Dirac a run later tonight into Speaker Preset 2 and then compare to Audyssey cal that I already have on Preset 1.

 

[peng]

"...if you spend some time on tweaking"

Precisely why I love DLBC. I have a limit to how much tweaking I have time to do or want to do. DLBC makes it stupid dumb easy and delivers excellent results. Perfect for dumbs guys like me.

I have the U30 firmware update loaded up on my AV10 - hoping to give Dirac a run later tonight into Speaker Preset 2 and then compare to Audyssey cal that I already have on Preset 1.

Can you get someone (wife) to do the switching for a blind test, please?

I wonder if it would be easy enough to level match though.

If you set both to correct full range, the difference will mostly be so abvious that blind test is not needed but which will sound better is still going to be subjective. To me Dirac correction full range sounds better.

 

[techsamurai]

Can you get someone (wife) to do the switching for a blind test, please?

I wonder if it would be easy enough to level match though.

If you set both to correct full range, the difference will mostly be so abvious that blind test is not needed but which will sound better is still going to be subjective. To me Dirac correction full range sounds better.

Interesting, these AVRs will support both Audyssey and Dirac allowing for a very controlled comparison.

 

[multisport4me]

Can you get someone (wife) to do the switching for a blind test, please?

I wonder if it would be easy enough to level match though.

If you set both to correct full range, the difference will mostly be so abvious that blind test is not needed but which will sound better is still going to be subjective. To me Dirac correction full range sounds better.

I love my wife but a sigficant component of my "wife acceptance factor" strategy is to keep her well clear of my man cave and all of my guitars, amps, and home theater gear. Toss in the fact that she thinks music sounds good on her iPhone and well....not gonna happen. lol

Any comparison will be highly subjective anyway. I'm not going to measure stuff ad naseum as I already know what you know - Dirac is better at full range. That said, I have Audyssey dialed in quite nicely so it will be a fun comparison. Right now, without DLBC, I expect the two can yield very similar results so it just comes down to preference - and I prefer Dirac. Someone much smarter than me (like you, Peng) can probably do a more technical evaluation/comparison if you ever decide to pick up a 4800 or AVR-A1H (since I know you hate Marantz).

 

[JAJDACT]

Interesting, these AVRs will support both Audyssey and Dirac allowing for a very controlled comparison.

I really look forward to this. What I don't look forward to is everyone that runs Dirac for the first time will run to the forums/groups and start spouting out nonsense like "my soundstage has opened up,/imaging improved significantly/I now feel like instruments are in the room and the seperation is immaculate"

 

[peng]

I love my wife but a sigficant component of my "wife acceptance factor" strategy is to keep her well clear of my man cave and all of my guitars, amps, and home theater gear. Toss in the fact that she thinks music sounds good on her iPhone and well....not gonna happen. lol

Any comparison will be highly subjective anyway. I'm not going to measure stuff ad naseum as I already know what you know - Dirac is better at full range. That said, I have Audyssey dialed in quite nicely so it will be a fun comparison. Right now, without DLBC, I expect the two can yield very similar results so it just comes down to preference - and I prefer Diract. Someone much smarter than me (like you, Peng) can probably do a more technical evaluation/comparison if you ever decide to pick up a 4800 or AVR-A1H (since I know you hate Marantz).

I don't hate Marantz, I owned more of them then Denon's, still do. Only that for AVRs, imo they are over priced, especially in Canada and the USA.

 

[techsamurai]

Out of curiosity, how does the licensing work? Is it attached to the unit or the individual?

Attaching it to the unit would be limiting as it would require future licenses in case the unit fails or the owner upgrades to another Dirac-enabled AVR. Is it transferrable when selling the unit?

Is it upgradeable in case DIRAC 2.0 comes out?

I'm very curious to see what percentage of D+M owners end up buying a Dirac license. It's not an option on the units that are under $2,000 so technically it's not an option for the average D+M customer. The Cinema 50 with a Dirac license ends up at a crazy $2,850-$3,200 for what is essentially the $1,499 6015. I guess a Volkswagen Golf GTI would cost 80 grand if it had DIRAC - better to listen to stereo.

 

[lessthanjoey]

I was hoping this had jumped forward to at least having DLBC. Seems like ART would be a long way off if they're doing this slowly and sequentially.

 

[PHD]

I've been experiencing with Dirac (full) and the X3800H at a friend's house since this morning (Umik-1). So far, we both agreed that Audyssey + Dynamic EQ, which you lose if Dirac filters are loaded, sounds better (more dynamic, better subwoofer performance). However, Dirac + a +6dB subwoofer level boost, ensures better imaging when listening to two-channel music either in stereo, DSU (center spread), or Auro 3D. I've decided to wait with my planned X6400H to X4800H upgrade till after BLDC is available for Denon.

 

[peng]

Out of curiosity, how does the licensing work? Is it attached to the unit or the individual?

Attaching it to the unit would be limiting as it would require future licenses in case the unit fails or the owner upgrades to another Dirac-enabled AVR. Is it transferrable when selling the unit?

Is it upgradeable in case DIRAC 2.0 comes out?

I'm very curious to see what percentage of D+M owners end up buying a Dirac license. It's not an option on the units that are under $2,000 so technically it's not an option for the average D+M customer. The Cinema 50 with a Dirac license ends up at a crazy $2,850-$3,200 for what is essentially the $1,499 6015. I guess a Volkswagen Golf GTI would cost 80 grand if it had DIRAC - better to listen to stereo.

That's why if I need one I will not get the C50 or 40, but the 3800 or 4800.

After the Dirac Upgrade, the 4800 will still be competitive with Onkyo, Yamaha and Anthem's and I like Dirac's much better.

I think the licence must be tie to the owner, I have to login to use it.

 

[Flak]

The license is associated also with the unit... if one sells it, he can sell the license as well and contact us by email at [email protected]
on his request, we'll reassign the license to the new owner.
I take the opportunity for posting a link to the general Dirac Live manual that could help some Denon/Marantz users:

Dirac Live User Manual - Dirac Live Support - Confluence

confluence.dirac.services

 

[multisport4me]

The license is tried to the unit. They will transfer it to the new owner if you sell the piece. I did it with my HTP-1 with no issues.

 

[multisport4me]

I was hoping this had jumped forward to at least having DLBC. Seems like ART would be a long way off if they're doing this slowly and sequentially.

No, they've said all along that DLBC won't come until early 2024. ART has only recently been acknowleged but I think they'll want to get DLBC out early (I hope) before getting serious about ART....which Storm Audio has first-to-market exclusivity on anyway for 2023.

 

[lessthanjoey]

No, they've said all along that DLBC won't come until early 2024. ART has only recently been acknowleged but I think they'll want to get DLBC out early (I hope) before getting serious about ART....which Storm Audio has first-to-market exclusivity on anyway for 2023.

I'm agreeing with you. I was hoping that DLBC was somehow earlier than promised, so that we'd get ART potentially early next year. If DLBC is still next year, who knows how long it'll be until ART comes out.