Sony MDR-Z1R Headphone Review

[PenguinMusic]

I'm sure that Sony has the resources to conduct the internal research. OTOH marketing will always be favorable, no matter if the FR was arrived at deterministically, or focus groups actually chose theirs over competing products. That's why honest subjective reviews are helpful.

The scope of Harman target is general, and some ignorant people insist to be granular with it. It's smoothness should be telling enough why you shouldn't. It's like thinking pr0n is real life.

I'm shocked ! pr0n is not real life ?



Ironical of course... But I'd rather tell. Who knows how this is going to be interpreted ?

 

[bidn]

One of the top 3 worst headphones heard at CanJam 2017 for me.

I fully agree with you, this so poorly performing (yet so expensive!!) headphone was clearly a no-go for me.

I also think that this can be an excellent headphone for people like many of those subjectivists at Head-Fi who rate headphones depending:
- on their price (the more expensive the better, even if it is garbage, which they call "Summit-Fi")
- on influences from paid reviewers and paid poetic reviews with plenty of photographs
- on hype
- on brand loyalty , etc.
...but not for someone looking for High-Fidelity...
.

 

[lewdish]

The tuning in the 4-6K region is likely to do with trying to expand the soundstage for a closed back headphone, the extra bass is a Sony thing - they have their own unpublished research which seems to suggest they think their customers like that signature. Personally I prefer closer to Harmon there but that boost is not so egregious that it overwhelms all other considerations. The peaks on either side of the 4-6k recess may simply be a consequence of the tuning dip.

Of course it's perfectly valid to say "No, not for me. I prefer a closer Harmon match and I don't think this headphone works. The engineers took a swing, but it's a miss for me." It's also okay to say "Sony have not hit Harmon here, but on balance I think the compromises they have made work quite well for me, even though it may not be for most people."

Yeah Sony is def aware that Harman exists and they do own like prob half the major music labels and major studios in the world they have more than enough information to validate themselves and their sales. Sony did actually make a product that hit the Harman target (Sony-MH750 &755) even before Harman published their findings and either gave them away for free w/ phones or sold it for peanuts ($5-8) back in like 2016. It may have even been older than that I feel like i recall seeing them back in the early 2010s.

There are videos and interviews w/ Sony engineers out there that do tell of internal preference testing using dummy head products. Its just that they have different conclusions than Harman and they don't publish them publicly.

 

[PenguinMusic]

I fully agree with you, this so poorly performing (yet so expensive!!) headphone was clearly a no-go for me.

I also think that this can be an excellent headphone for people like many of those subjectivists at Head-Fi who rate headphones depending:
- on their price (the more expensive the better, even if it is garbage, which they call "Summit-Fi")
- on influences from paid reviewers and paid poetic reviews with plenty of photographs
- on hype
- on brand loyalty , etc.
...but not for someone looking for High-Fidelity...
.

Hum...

I envy you. You hold the universal wisdom and knowledge.

I'd like to have even half of that, but unfortunately, I don't.

Despite the average reviews that this headphone got, I tried it.
I listened to it.
And I loved it.

I wish I would have enough of your wisdom to understand thow worng I am.
That I should not like.
That it can not sound right with such horrible numbers.

But as I am stupid and stubborn, I will simply continue to tell that I PERSONNALLY AND TOTALLY SUBJECTIVELY like it...

Have a good day/night.

 

[Axo1989]

I'll add some listening impressions. As I mentioned a page or so back, I have these headphones also.

I'm not a headphone collector, over the years I've had a small range. The smaller ones (IEMs etc) eventually get eaten by the cats, even the cords on the larger ones (I only do detachable cords now). In my selections I do value visual aesthetics, haptics and comfort as well as sonics, I'm aware of course that people apply different weighting to these aspects.

I've kept a pair of Senny HD650 as workhorse/reference for some years now, and recently added AirPods Max.

The ZIR are very, very well made and detailed (even compared to the other two which aren't lacking at all) as well as having the comfort others have mentioned. They have the basic sonic characteristics you'd expect from the measurements. They have more bass than the Sennies of course, and more action in the treble than the Max.

While I've never gone for classic Beats, I like the bass tone and timbre from the Sony and don't perceive the sound as bloated/warm. I think the bass is well-defined and clear. On some material—tracks with lashings of deliberate overdrive—the treble tuning is too much. On other material it works well for me. I haven't used them with EQ (I don't enjoy fiddling with that shite, no offence to those who do) but one day I'll send them to Sonarworks for a calibrated profile.

A few months back @GXAlan posted samples from a SET amp and a Topping to compare here. There were classic prog-rock, spoken word-ish and jazz samples iirc. I listened first with Max and then with Z1R. I was one of few who could reliably differentiate blind, but had more trouble with the jazz (which I don't listen to generally). On the spoken word and jazz the Sony sounded really good. I could also differentiate the jazz samples more easily (ie SET vs solid state). Running my own parallel comparison, I preferred them to the Max on the jazz especially (but not on the prog-rock) and had a greater appreciation for both the sound of the amp in question (even though I could hear various artefacts) and the musical genre. I expect the Sonys were tuned by ear for certain pleasures and tastes.

Both Max and Z1R have very low distortion, which certainly helped that comparison task. There's no problem with clarity, etc. So I agree with some here, they wouldn't be my primary production choice. But while the sonics are idiosyncratic they can certainly be enjoyed.

Edit: for "tuned by ear" I mean fine-tuned of course , Sony have ample engineering resources and design experience to manage the basics.

 

[raif71]

Yeah Sony is def aware that Harman exists and they do own like prob half the major music labels and major studios in the world they have more than enough information to validate themselves and their sales. Sony did actually make a product that hit the Harman target (Sony-MH750 &755) even before Harman published their findings and either gave them away for free w/ phones or sold it for peanuts ($5-8) back in like 2016. It may have even been older than that I feel like i recall seeing them back in the early 2010s.

There are videos and interviews w/ Sony engineers out there that do tell of internal preference testing using dummy head products. Its just that they have different conclusions than Harman and they don't publish them publicly.

It's like they design the headphone using specs and "best measurement" practices then retune/re-engineer them according to ear. I'm speculating here but if that is true, sounds like a win-win combo.

 

[Rmeillat]

This pair of headphones is still one of my favorites. It is so relaxing, non-fatiguing, and musical to my ears. It's super comfortable for long listening sessions. And the frequency response "anomalies" don't do it justice in my opinion. Definitely worth a try imho.

 

[PenguinMusic]

This pair of headphones is still one of my favorites. It is so relaxing, non-fatiguing, and musical to my ears. It's super comfortable for long listening sessions. And the frequency response "anomalies" don't do it justice in my opinion. Definitely worth a try imho.

Hi,
My thoughts exactly. Could have written this myself. I think I aleady did
They may not be the most "neutral" headphones on the market, but with some EQ (out of the box as I said I like them but they are a little too heavy on the basse side) they are a delight to me and accomodate my ears for really long listening sessions.
Regards

 

[Fone]

I have listened to these Sony headphones several times. Overall, I really liked the sound, comfort, and build quality. The semi-closed build is unique.

In the real world, this is one of my favourite headphones. Living in Japan near a headphone store, I have had the good fortune of trying most of the premium models.

The 6dB attenuation in the mid frequencies reduces the volume and creates a slightly distant feeling for the main instruments and vocals.

This was subtle but I didn't particularly like this paired to lower frequency response. But I like open headphones as a general matter anyways.

 

[lewdish]

Thanks for posting the data.
If you could directly attach the files (txt, csv, etc. any human readable format really) that would be great...

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve (and other constrains) with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be therefore more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF and maybe at HF).
• The range around and above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo, the boosts and preamp gain (loss of Dynamic range) need to be carefully considered to avoid issues with, amongst other things, too low a Max SPL or damaging your device. You have beed warned.
• Not all units of the same product are made equal. The EQ is based on the measurements of a single unit. YMMV with regards to the very unit you are trying this EQ on.
• I sometimes use variations of the Harman curve for some reasons. See rational here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-5#post-989169
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-6#post-992119
• NOTE: the score then calculated is not comparable to the scores derived from the default Harman target curve if not otherwise noted.

Good L/R match.
Lots of resonances -> variability unit to unit could be an issue, maybe overdone the EQ
The Measurement set up, although decent, is not an exact match for Harman's therefore the scores might not be accurate.

I have generated one EQ, the APO config file is attached.

Score no EQ: 71.7
Score with EQ: 105.5

Sony MDR Z1R EQ Flat 96000Hz
September112023-111623

Preamp: -5.2 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 158.09 Hz Gain -5.57 dB Q 0.84
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 606.74 Hz Gain 1.06 dB Q 2.7
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1570.17 Hz Gain -0.95 dB Q 0.55
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 2763.61 Hz Gain 3.29 dB Q 5.95
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 3263.23 Hz Gain -8.43 dB Q 6
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 4256.23 Hz Gain 5.98 dB Q 3.41
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 6008.98 Hz Gain 4.55 dB Q 4.56
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 6770.96 Hz Gain -3.66 dB Q 5.96
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 8503.5 Hz Gain -2.49 dB Q 6
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 10109.1 Hz Gain -8.05 dB Q 5.94

View attachment 311208

Going by the scoring w/o EQ it honestly isnt too bad imo relative to what else has been scored pre-EQ, but w/ EQ @105.5 it looks like its one of the highest if not the highest score so far~ I dont like using EQ typically but I am quite interested now in buying one and seeing how it compares on / off. I dont think Harman is end all be all in fact i typically like bass knocked off to flat completely tbh but I am interested in knowning if this might be the benchmark for Harman EQ'ed and use it as a reference tool~

 

[staticV3]

Going by the scoring w/o EQ it honestly isnt too bad imo relative to what else has been scored pre-EQ, but w/ EQ @105.5 it looks like its one of the highest if not the highest score so far~ I dont like using EQ typically but I am quite interested now in buying one and seeing how it compares on / off. I dont think Harman is end all be all in fact i typically like bass knocked off to flat completely tbh but I am interested in knowning if this might be the benchmark for Harman EQ'ed and use it as a reference tool~

You're reading waay too much into the Harman Preference score.

The algorithm is very unstable (small changes in response lead to big score differences), not very predictable (DCA Stealth and HD800S have identical Preference scores), and when you think about it, the post EQ preference score can be whatever the EQ designer wants it to be.

With this kind of simulated post EQ response, you could give even the Porta Pro 106 Preference Points.

If you want a Harman OE2018 benchmark headphone, ignore the pre/post EQ preference score, and look for a headphone with:
-low THD
-high SPL capability
-low unit variance
-consistent in-situ frequency response across a variety of listeners (see pg. 29-33 here) -> open-backed
-smooth frequency response free of high-Q features or resonances
-reliable GRAS measurements from multiple sources (Amir, oratory, 0dibi, SoundStageNetwork, Sean Olive, HeadphoneTestLab, etc.)

 

[lewdish]

You're reading waay too much into the Harman Preference score.

The algorithm is very unstable (small changes in response lead to big score differences), not very predictable (DCA Stealth and HD800S have identical Preference scores), and when you think about it, the post EQ preference score can be whatever the EQ designer wants it to be.

With this kind of simulated post EQ response, you could give even the Porta Pro 106 Preference Points.

If you want a Harman OE2018 benchmark headphone, ignore the pre/post EQ preference score, and look for a headphone with:
-low THD
-high SPL capability
-low unit variance
-consistent in-situ frequency response across a variety of listeners (see pg. 29-33 here) -> open-backed
-smooth frequency response free of high-Q features or resonances
-reliable GRAS measurements from multiple sources (Amir, oratory, 0dibi, SoundStageNetwork, Sean Olive, HeadphoneTestLab, etc.)

I dont even like harman lol i prefer -4-6db from harman bass shelf w/ a slight rolloff toward subbass, I just think its fairly good for what it appears and seemingly if it is intended to hit harman target via EQ its objectively looking like its going to do it best based on all preference scores i've seen posted ~ Its still a useful metric even if I dont prefer it subjectively.

 

[cookiefactory]

Nice to see the Z1R reviewed. While these days most of of my music listening is via speakers, these are the headphones I have sitting next to me, the ones I use on a semi-regular basis (driven simply by a RME ADI-2) above all others (and there have been many, many others).

The Z1R have great sound paired with exceptional comfort, very likely the most comfortable headphones I've ever used especially for extended listening sessions. I do remember feeling these sounded a bit odd at first, but the brain quickly acclimates and the Z1Rs simply do the least wrong across all axes (sound, comfort, bass, etc - yes I consider bass it's own category).

Stripping out all flavor of the month / hype cycle noise, I gauge how much I like/dislike a piece of audio gear by my urge to look at and research upgrades aka upgraditis. I've owned the Z1Rs since late 2019 and feel zero urge to switch. They join the Shure KSE1200 (travel) and Shure 846 + RMCE-TW2 (working out, putting around in the garage), and Revel F328Bes as the ultimate gear that have, for better or worse, killed my interest in pursuing audio as an active hobby.

 

[haris525]

Hello, I am in a market for a closed back headphone. Budget is 2k USD. Should I get these or the LCD - XC. I already have the LCD-X 2021 but they are open back, and cannot be used in the current situation. I like neutral sound - for example I love the Ether CX, but many people find it boring.

Thank you

 

[Jimbob54]

Hello, I am in a market for a closed back headphone. Budget is 2k USD. Should I get these or the LCD - XC. I already have the LCD-X 2021 but they are open back, and cannot be used in the current situation. I like neutral sound - for example I love the Ether CX, but many people find it boring.

Thank you

Whats wrong with the Ether CX? Far better value than either this or the XC. The XC is a neck- breaker and this has a decidedly wonky tuning.

 

[lewdish]

Hello, I am in a market for a closed back headphone. Budget is 2k USD. Should I get these or the LCD - XC. I already have the LCD-X 2021 but they are open back, and cannot be used in the current situation. I like neutral sound - for example I love the Ether CX, but many people find it boring.

Thank you

I have Ether C 1.0 not sure how people could say DCA sounds veiled, imo subjective they sound more detailed than earlier LCD Models. Response is solid, only issue is staging and imaging is not great.

 

[haris525]

Whats wrong with the Ether CX? Far better value than either this or the XC. The XC is a neck- breaker and this has a decidedly wonky tuning.

Nothing wrong with CX - I like them a lot, I just wanted to try something different. The XC dont bother my neck at all, I can listen to them for 2/3 hours, but the ear pads can get really really hot.

 

[PenguinMusic]

Hello, I am in a market for a closed back headphone. Budget is 2k USD. Should I get these or the LCD - XC. I already have the LCD-X 2021 but they are open back, and cannot be used in the current situation. I like neutral sound - for example I love the Ether CX, but many people find it boring.

Thank you

Hi,

If you happen to live in France, not to far awayt from Paris, you're welcome to come to my home and listen to the MDR-Z1R and see for yourself...

Regards.

 

[haris525]

Hi,

If you happen to live in France, not to far awayt from Paris, you're welcome to come to my home and listen to the MDR-Z1R and see for yourself...

Regards.

Thank you for the offer my friend! but I am too far away in midwest! I do appreciate it

 

[davidmthekidd]

Ahh, The Z1R's! My all time favorite, not because of accuracy, but rather their Musicality. I have own close to 12 headphones and these are the best for music enjoyment & comfort.