Sony CDP-227 ESD measurements

[audio_tony]

Measurements of my Sony CDP227ESD - this is dual DAC machine with the much revered TDA1541.

It doesn't seem to measure that well at all, for what was quite a high end machine back in the 80's.

My test setup: Asus Xonar STX sound card with a self built buffer / gain box in front of that. Host PC is an Intel i7 running Windows 10 with 32G RAM and SSD - no mechanical disks or CDROM drive present.
I also use an Altor Audio Olivine-2 ADC, however the Asus Xonar was used these measurements.
Sound card input was set to 24bit/96kHz
REW was configured as per the recommendations in the post from @NTTY

EDITED BY MOD AT TONYS REQUEST- FIRST 2 IMAGES NOW CORRECT

 

[NTTY]

Hi, it seems good for a TDA1541A.

I have a 337ESD with the staggered conversion from the Sony CDX1144 oversampling filter, too. I'll present it some day. Are you sure yours is with the dual TDA? There was a version with a single TDA1541A.

In the meantime, here below is my favourite view of THD vs Frequency @-12dBFS, with a single stereo TDA1541A, then the same with TDA1541A-S1 (crown version) and same with dual TDA1541A in "Sony Staggered" mode:

Sony achieved same performance with their own digital filter which was feeding the DACs in that staggered mode than the crown version of the TDA alone.

 

[audio_tony]

Are you sure yours is with the dual TDA? There was a version with a single TDA1541A.

Yes, it's definitely the dual TDA version.

I also have an Arcam TDA1541 (single) DAC which I intend to test later - although I think it might need some maintenance first.

 

[restorer-john]

Cool review of the 227ESD (507ESD)!

It must have been the last odd machine to use Philips TDA-1541s due to the deal Sony and Philips had agreed to early on. Philips was utterly hopeless, let's face it. They couldn't build a 16bit converter for the release of CD because they'd spent too much on the 14 bit TDA-1540. They couldn't even get their players working for the agreed worldwide release of CD (October 1982- 3 months prior to Christmas to make it the absolute Christmas bonanza around the world it should have been), so they got a six month extension. Sony and the Japanese group said "screw you" we'll release in Japan- which they did. Then by the time their own 16 bit converter finally arrived, the world had moved on to 18bit, then 20bit.

I've got plenty of 1st generation CD players and the Philips machines are basically rat's nests of bodges, productions changes, handmade bits and pieces. Compared to the internals of a CDP-101, Philips players look like a primary school kid's science project built in a lunchbox.

Got a CDP-101 on the bench at the moment. It's just beautiful to look at inside. And the service manual/schematic? Wow, that's a work of art.

Even with paralleled D/A converters in this 227ESD, the TDA-1541 didn't outperform a single PCM-58.

I've got several CDP-338ESD (608ESD) players here. PCM58P(J or K IIRC).

 

[Hayabusa]

Cool review of the 227ESD (507ESD)!

It must have been the last odd machine to use Philips TDA-1541s due to the deal Sony and Philips had agreed to early on. Philips was utterly hopeless, let's face it. They couldn't build a 16bit converter for the release of CD because they'd spent too much on the 14 bit TDA-1540. They couldn't even get their players working for the agreed worldwide release of CD (October 1982- 3 months prior to Christmas to make it the absolute Christmas bonanza around the world it should have been), so they got a six month extension. Sony and the Japanese group said "screw you" we'll release in Japan- which they did. Then by the time their own 16 bit converter finally arrived, the world had moved on to 18bit, then 20bit.

I've got plenty of 1st generation CD players and the Philips machines are basically rat's nests of bodges, productions changes, handmade bits and pieces. Compared to the internals of a CDP-101, Philips players look like a primary school kid's science project built in a lunchbox.

Got a CDP-101 on the bench at the moment. It's just beautiful to look at inside. And the service manual/schematic? Wow, that's a work of art.

Even with paralleled D/A converters in this 227ESD, the TDA-1541 didn't outperform a single PCM-58.

I've got several CDP-338ESD (608ESD) players here. PCM58P(J or K IIRC).

What has Philips done to you to have such dark colored view?
A proud (ex) Philips employee (1983-2020)

 

[suttondesign]

Cool review of the 227ESD (507ESD)!

It must have been the last odd machine to use Philips TDA-1541s due to the deal Sony and Philips had agreed to early on. Philips was utterly hopeless, let's face it. They couldn't build a 16bit converter for the release of CD because they'd spent too much on the 14 bit TDA-1540. They couldn't even get their players working for the agreed worldwide release of CD (October 1982- 3 months prior to Christmas to make it the absolute Christmas bonanza around the world it should have been), so they got a six month extension. Sony and the Japanese group said "screw you" we'll release in Japan- which they did. Then by the time their own 16 bit converter finally arrived, the world had moved on to 18bit, then 20bit.

I've got plenty of 1st generation CD players and the Philips machines are basically rat's nests of bodges, productions changes, handmade bits and pieces. Compared to the internals of a CDP-101, Philips players look like a primary school kid's science project built in a lunchbox.

Got a CDP-101 on the bench at the moment. It's just beautiful to look at inside. And the service manual/schematic? Wow, that's a work of art.

Even with paralleled D/A converters in this 227ESD, the TDA-1541 didn't outperform a single PCM-58.

I've got several CDP-338ESD (608ESD) players here. PCM58P(J or K IIRC).

I bought the cdp-101 in 1983. It was a joy to use and behold. Only bested by the Cdp-x777es, a true marvel. I do sort of miss such machines, but I went to a server in 1999 and sold the luxe Sony es machine. I wish I hadn’t.

 

[restorer-john]

What has Philips done to you to have such dark colored view?
A proud (ex) Philips employee (1983-2020)

My opinion of Philips developed over many decades from the early 1980s onwards to today, and is related to everything from components, colour televisions, healthcare electronics, retail consumer electronics, lighting, even the LCD panels coming out of the LG joint venture.

You were with them for 37 years. That's amazing and I would rather talk about what cool stuff you did, instead of trashing your previous employer.

 

[restorer-john]

I bought the cdp-101 in 1983. It was a joy to use and behold. Only bested by the Cdp-x777es, a true marvel. I do sort of miss such machines, but I went to a server in 1999 and sold the luxe Sony es machine. I wish I hadn’t.

The CDP-X777esd was Sony at it's absolute peak. They had improved the X77esd which was in reality not a real step up from the X7esd. The XA series that came after has not aged well.

Those 7 series classic machines are getting phenomenally valuable as time goes on.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't know that I agree it didn't measure that well. Remember this is 1987. What other sources measured this good? The answer is nothing your average consumer could get at home. I mean this or that machine might be a touch better than this one, but even now what is horribly wrong with the performance? Nothing. It also according to your results met the specs from back then. Pretty good this far down the line.

 

[audio_tony]

I don't know that I agree it didn't measure that well. Remember this is 1987. What other sources measured this good? The answer is nothing your average consumer could get at home. I mean this or that machine might be a touch better than this one, but even now what is horribly wrong with the performance? Nothing. It also according to your results met the specs from back then. Pretty good this far down the line.

You make a good point.
For some reason I expected more, no idea why - the dual DACs and much revered 1541's perhaps?

 

[restorer-john]

For some reason I expected more, no idea why - the dual DACs and much revered 1541's perhaps?

It never tested that well to be honest.

I have the ultra rare Marantz CD12/DA12LE KI approved pair here, AU$6,000 back when new. The absolute best TDA-1541 S1 (selected) implementation ever. Total hang the expense D/A converter with three toroidal transformers, copper and diecast chassis, proper LCOFC 600R balanced transformers, etc.

My CDP-X7ESDs (PCM-58P selection S) from 1989 outperforms it in every measurable parameter. The CDP-338ESD also is better than the DA-12, which was half the price of the X7esd. And the X7 was less than half the price (AUD$2799) of the Marantz pair.

338: https://audio-database.com/SONY-ESPRIT/player/cdp-338esd.html
X7: https://audio-database.com/SONY-ESPRIT/player/cdp-x7esd.html

 

[Tell]

It doesn't seem to measure that well at all, for what was quite a high end machine back in the 80's.

What do you men by "doesn't seem to measure that well at all"? Distortion is below -100dB, noise at -90 and frequency response is flat. Sure it might not be objectively "high end" by todays standards, but its still beyond transparent for the absolute majority of people. Just goes to show how good DACs where even all the way back then

 

[audio_tony]

What do you men by "doesn't seem to measure that well at all"? Distortion is below -100dB, noise at -90 and frequency response is flat. Sure it might not be objectively "high end" by todays standards, but its still beyond transparent for the absolute majority of people. Just goes to show how good DACs where even all the way back then

As I said a couple posts up - I had overly high expectations - I stand corrected.

 

[Tell]

As I said a couple posts up - I had overly high expectations - I stand corrected.

Ah, yeah sometimes it's good to read the whole thread before posting

 

[Multicore]

Why compare a Marantz player at -0.1 and -1 dBFS with a Sony player at -3 and lower?

 

[audio_tony]

Why compare a Marantz player at -0.1 and -1 dBFS with a Sony player at -3 and lower?

Where did I compare the Marantz with the Sony?
I posted tests for 5x CD players, 2x Marantz, 1x Sony, 1x Kenwood, Philips CD723 and a Sony DVD player.
But I didn't draw comparions between them? I just presented the measurements for each.

All of my measurements started with -0.1dB.
I generated my test tones using the Sox utilility, and when I generated the 0dB test files I got a warning about clipping - so it seemed pointless to test with a tone that's already clipped...
Hence backing the level off to -0.1dB...
I could use another utility to generate a test file at exactly 0dB and retest - but I know it won't make any difference.

 

[Multicore]

Clearly I don't understand what's going on. The title of the topic is "Sony CDP-227 ESD measurements" and we have 1kHz spectra for two players at 7 amplitudes thus:

Followed by some different tests for the same Sony. I don't see the Kenwood, Phillips and the other Marantz.

 

[audio_tony]

Clearly I don't understand what's going on. The title of the topic is "Sony CDP-227 ESD measurements" and we have 1kHz spectra for two players at six amplitudes thus:

View attachment 407009

Followed by some different tests for the same Sony. I don't see the Kenwood, Phillips and the other Marantz.

Oh dear that looks like my mistake! I've uploaded the wrong graphs for the first couple of measurements.

I don't think I can edit the post now either...

The other players are in separate posts.

 

[Multicore]

Oh dear that looks like my mistake! I've uploaded the wrong graphs for the first couple of measurements.

I don't think I can edit the post now either...

@Jimbob54 is online and may be able to help. I expect if you send him the two images to replace he can easily make the edit.

 

[audio_tony]

@Jimbob54 is online and may be able to help. I expect if you send him the two images to replace he can easily make the edit.

Here are the other posts.

Kenwood DP7090

Kenwood DP-7090 measurements

Here are some measurements of my Kenwood DP-7090 - this player has no less than 4 PCM1702 DACs per channel. Just like the dual DAC Sony I posted earlier, it doesn't measure as good as I had expected. My test setup: Asus Xonar STX sound card with a self built buffer / gain box in front of that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Marantz CD63

Marantz CD-63 measurements

Here are some measurements of a Marantz CD-63. NOTE: The HDAM modules have been removed from this player, so it's no longer standard. No other modifications or upgrades have been carried out. The PSU appears to be a little noise (50Hz spike) however I've not looked into this. Also, I seem to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Marantz CD17

Marantz CD-17 measurements

Measurements of my slightly modified Marantz CD-17 (it's an early player so I think it's a MK1 or MK nothing lol). In the audio section, The HDAM section has been removed, muting transistors bypassed and the OPAMPS replaced with NE5532 (I tried LM4562 but they were difficult to stabilise, and...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Philips CD723

Philips CD723 measurements

Measurements of a Philips CD723. From memory, this was a bottom of the line (or close to) player. It mostly measured as expected, however it had some real issues with the IMD, multitone and jitter measurements, all of which raised the noise floor considerably. I do seem to recall that this...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Sony DVP-NS905V (dvd player)

Sony DVP-NS905V DVD Player - CD player measurements

Measurements of my Sony DVD player. I have always liked the cosmetics of this player - it has a nice display and always did a fine job of playing DVDs. It plays DVDs better than my BluRay player actually. I feel that it performs quite well for a DVD player, although it does also have SACD...

www.audiosciencereview.com