Solid Core Wiring

[Suffolkhifinut]

Think if you read my post eddy current losses occur in the core not in the windings. In a magnetic circuit there are eddy current losses and magnetisation losses. In the core as frequency rises laminated soft iron cores are replaced with ferrite cores and eventually air cores. When it comes to magnetisation losses they are depicted using a hysteresis curve. A permanent magnetic core will have a ‘fat’ hysteresis loop, while a good electromagnetic core has a ’thin’ hysteresis loop. Solid core conductors are also more prone to breakage.

 

[arpinnurmela]

Think if you read my post eddy current losses occur in the core not in the windings. In a magnetic circuit there are eddy current losses and magnetisation losses. In the core as frequency rises laminated soft iron cores are replaced with ferrite cores and eventually air cores. When it comes to magnetisation losses they are depicted using a hysteresis curve. A permanent magnetic core will have a ‘fat’ hysteresis loop, while a good electromagnetic core has a ’thin’ hysteresis loop. Solid core conductors are also more prone to breakage.

That makes sense. And yes to solid core conductors being more prone to breakage. But, thus far, I haven’t had an issue with breakage on my interconnects. Although I have had breakages with my solid core headphone cables.

 

[acetogen]

To date, Paul McGowan has not said anything meriting a serious response.

Just by coincidence I watched the braided power cable add that McGowan has in his youtube channel. He cleverly uses the video to advertise the Audioquest braided power supply and his upcoming monoblock amp. But he is using the inductance argument on interconnects and speaker wires to make the argument that you need braiding to eliminate "inductance" that causes frequency roll off, get this, in a power cable. Is he so obtuse that cannot understand that AC is not equal to DC and the whole argument, whatever validity might have with speakers, has not relation to power supply cables that work at single frequency?

 

[arpinnurmela]

Yeah, I saw this video. At some point I may try my hand at making my own power cables out of solid core wiring. Just to see what happens. But with a quality power supply and quality power, I struggle to perceive how power cables matter outside of gauge and just basic stuff like plugging amps directly into a wall socket. Having sold cables in a previous life, cables aren’t money that I’m comfortable spending for a wide range of reasons.

So my least advice is to not buy cables unless from a very small business. My best advice would be to simply make your own cables. Choose the approach (try solid core) and focus on the highest quality connectors and jacks you can afford.

 

[antcollinet]

Seriously - I don't know how many times this needs to be said. Solid core or stranded will make no audible difference at the same cross sectional area for audio frequencies.

Cable construction makes no audible difference once DC resistance is low enough.

 

[arpinnurmela]

Seriously - I don't know how many times this needs to be said. Solid core or stranded will make no audible difference at the same cross sectional area for audio frequencies.

Cable construction makes no audible difference once DC resistance is low enough.

So Tony, you’ve made yourself some air-gapped solid core wiring? Or are you talking from no actual personal experience. Have you tried things like Eichmann style connectors? Or are you talking from no actual personal experience.

Of course, it’s fine to talk from no personal experience. I’m just coming at things from my own experiences. And probably you are right that when I post recordings of before and after mods that no one will be able to tell the difference.

My experience has definitely been that I never heard a difference between cables until I made my own cables. Maybe much of what I’m hearing is imagined. But at least I’m hearing something. I don’t believe that you’ve highlighted any personal actual experience. And you’ve provided no scientific proof to justify that there is no difference in signal transmission between air gapped solid core and stranded. So continue to state your “beliefs” because that is all they are at this point.

And because you fail to provide anything other than your personal beliefs in this discussion, it’s my belief vs your belief.

 

[Killingbeans]

But with a quality power supply and quality power, I struggle to perceive how power cables matter outside of gauge and just basic stuff like plugging amps directly into a wall socket.

No need to struggle. There's nothing to find. The first two things, you mention, aren't even a part of it. Different power cables does nothing to the sound of your gear. The only thing you'll get from "personal experience" is a first hand lesson in how your brain "helps" you to hear things.

 

[arpinnurmela]

No need to struggle. There's nothing to find. The first two things, you mention, aren't even a part of it. Different power cables does nothing to the sound of your gear. The only thing you'll get from "personal experience" is a first hand lesson in how your brain "helps" you to hear things.

@Killingbeans. I’m on your side on this one. I just don’t speak in absolutes like you do.

 

[SIY]

And because you fail to provide anything other than your personal beliefs in this discussion, it’s my belief vs your belief.

His belief is basic physics, with a couple centuries of data behind it. Your belief is... well...

If someone claims that dropping an anvil on my head will cure COVID, I don't need to put his belief to the test.

 

[antcollinet]

So Tony, you’ve made yourself some air-gapped solid core wiring? Or are you talking from no actual personal experience. Have you tried things like Eichmann style connectors? Or are you talking from no actual personal experience.

Of course, it’s fine to talk from no personal experience. I’m just coming at things from my own experiences. And probably you are right that when I post recordings of before and after mods that no one will be able to tell the difference.

My experience has definitely been that I never heard a difference between cables until I made my own cables. Maybe much of what I’m hearing is imagined. But at least I’m hearing something. I don’t believe that you’ve highlighted any personal actual experience. And you’ve provided no scientific proof to justify that there is no difference in signal transmission between air gapped solid core and stranded. So continue to state your “beliefs” because that is all they are at this point.

And because you fail to provide anything other than your personal beliefs in this discussion, it’s my belief vs your belief.

Here is just one test that has been done - first one I found, and I didn't have to look long to find it. Conclusion - even between generic and high end cables, only resistance can make an audible difference, and then close to inaudible.

I am confident that if I found any rigorously performed test on speaker cables, the result would be the same.

What you are hearing comes from the wetware between your ears, rather than the soundwaves reaching them. Or perhaps your solid core has a significantly different resistance than the stranded cables you are comparing with.

Do Speaker Cables Make a Difference? Speaker Cable Tests

Using measurements to clear up your cabel controversy to ensure you have the right sizes and types to hook up all your components.

www.lifewire.com

 

[arpinnurmela]

His belief is basic physics, with a couple centuries of data behind it. Your belief is... well...

If someone claims that dropping an anvil on my head will cure COVID, I don't need to put his belief to the test.

Cool. @SIY. Another person who can’t back up their “beliefs” who makes blanket broad generalized statements. Not very evidence based.

When any person can provide actual science that shows air gapped solid core is no different or worse than stranded I’ll be pretty excited. And that’s how science works. Actual scientists are excited to be proven wrong.

So again. Another person who can’t prove anything and makes general statements like “basic physics.” I’ve heard that a few times in my life.

 

[arpinnurmela]

Here is just one test that has been done - first one I found, and I didn't have to look long to find it. Conclusion - even between generic and high end cables, only resistance can make an audible difference, and then close to inaudible.

I am confident that if I found any rigorously performed test on speaker cables, the result would be the same.

What you are hearing comes from the wetware between your ears, rather than the soundwaves reaching them. Or perhaps your solid core has a significantly different resistance than the stranded cables you are comparing with.

Do Speaker Cables Make a Difference? Speaker Cable Tests

Using measurements to clear up your cabel controversy to ensure you have the right sizes and types to hook up all your components.

www.lifewire.com

@tonycollinet. I have started to think that I may be hearing differences in resistance. Solid metal connectors do seem to make a difference as well. I ran some off the cuff calculations and it did seem that solid metal connectors have significantly reduced resistance. I’m not sure how that would really matter at a single junction point but I have heard a big difference when swapping connectors and jacks over to solid metal or ultra thick platings.

When I’ve replaced wiring to tweeters, which usually have 18ga or smaller gauge, with air gapped 16 gauge, I do hear a big difference on the top end with just that wire swap. Frankly, it does not make sense to me, but maybe somehow resistance is at play here.

 

[SIY]

Actual scientists are excited to be proven wrong.

Yes, we are. But "proven wrong" is a lot different than "wasting time with handwaving brain lint from gullible people who read something in an ad." Bring evidence, or what you've got is a big fat zero.

You might find the concept of Russell's Teapot useful.

 

[Killingbeans]

I just don’t speak in absolutes like you do.

I don't like doing that either, but power cables is one of the few exceptions.

 

[arpinnurmela]

Yes, we are. But "proven wrong" is a lot different than "wasting time with handwaving brain lint from gullible people who read something in an ad." Bring evidence, or what you've got is a big fat zero.

You might find the concept of Russell's Teapot useful.

Looks like you are the one wasting time according to your own criteria. So… and unlike you, I don’t believe I know all things. And also unlike you, I try things out before dumping on them.

But we have one thing in common. Neither of us have brought evidence to support our beliefs. And yes, like you, I like to use the teapot in space to describe things that seem impossible. But unlike you, I have tried air gapped solid core on a dozen systems. We’ll see how open minded people like you are if I provide evidence for a difference.

 

[SIY]

Looks like you are the one wasting time according to your own criteria. So… and unlike you, I don’t believe I know all things. And also unlike you, I try things out before dumping on them.

But we have one thing in common. Neither of us have brought evidence to support our beliefs. And yes, like you, I like to use the teapot in space to describe things that seem impossible. But unlike you, I have tried air gapped solid core on a dozen systems. We’ll see how open minded people like you are if I provide evidence for a difference.

Here's your anvil.

 

[dc655321]

Having sold cables in a previous life

Doesn't look "previous" - https://solidcorewiring.com/

 

[SIY]

Doesn't look "previous" - https://solidcorewiring.com/

Several veils now lifted. Nice detective work.

 

[antcollinet]

Yes, we are. But "proven wrong" is a lot different than "wasting time with handwaving brain lint from gullible people who read something in an ad." Bring evidence, or what you've got is a big fat zero.

You might find the concept of Russell's Teapot useful.

Do we have a "post of the day" thread here?

If not, @amirm please can you set one up just for this post?

Thanks.

 

[Inner Space]

My experience has definitely been that I never heard a difference between cables until I made my own cables.

At first I took this to be a tragically obvious demonstration of expectation bias and confirmation bias, and I wanted to ask: have you no self-awareness at all?

Then I saw:

Doesn't look "previous" - https://solidcorewiring.com/

And realized you're wasting our time with a sordid commercial message, in which case I ask: have you no shame?