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SMSL SP200: Do We Get Golden Samples For Review?
- Thread starter amirm
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It will happen with high sensitivity headphones/iems. iems are usually way more sensitive than full size headphones.
Not IEMs, Over-ear headphones. Focal Elexes, various Hifiman, Drop/Sennheiser 6XX. Channel imbalance can be a problem in any situation if it is creating audible amplitude differences/variance between the two stereo channels.
MRphotography
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You're getting those issues with 6XX headphones?
Veri
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A good solution for sure, yes.
This is a statement from SMSL-Mandy.
About the potentiometer of SP200
If you feel that there is a balanced problem with the SP200, contact the seller. We can replace this product with a new SP200 to ensure that there is no problem with the balance, but this balance is a problem that all potentiometers will face. But different individuals, there are differences. This is normal. It is not the potentiometer used by the SP200. It is not because it uses the B-type potentiometer. In fact, the overall balance and performance of this potentiometer is better than the ALPS RK09!
About the potentiometer of SP200
If you feel that there is a balanced problem with the SP200, contact the seller. We can replace this product with a new SP200 to ensure that there is no problem with the balance, but this balance is a problem that all potentiometers will face. But different individuals, there are differences. This is normal. It is not the potentiometer used by the SP200. It is not because it uses the B-type potentiometer. In fact, the overall balance and performance of this potentiometer is better than the ALPS RK09!
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"In fact, the overall balance and performance of this potentiometer is better than the ALPS RK09!"
First of all, since potentiometers have been used since like forever, though many are reported with imbalance, most don't show this level discrepancy between individual samples. There are many that are a lot worse of course. But this is supposed to be an high performance amplifier not some cheap shit or audiophool stuff.
Stating it better than rk09 is not very useful either. I have been using different pots, rk09 was never great in channel balance.
In the end, there are quite a few different solutions to deal with this issue. And it's been implemented in multiple devices across bands.
But i like the fact they are facing it and willing to replace.
First of all, since potentiometers have been used since like forever, though many are reported with imbalance, most don't show this level discrepancy between individual samples. There are many that are a lot worse of course. But this is supposed to be an high performance amplifier not some cheap shit or audiophool stuff.
Stating it better than rk09 is not very useful either. I have been using different pots, rk09 was never great in channel balance.
In the end, there are quite a few different solutions to deal with this issue. And it's been implemented in multiple devices across bands.
But i like the fact they are facing it and willing to replace.
Veri
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You link to a private conversation
screenshot?Thank you for your advice.You link to a private conversation
It's true that all pots have that issue, but using a B-type potentiometer just makes things worse. See this example:
Imagine the red part is your desired volume, with a B-type pot you need to turn the pot just a little bit and that makes it most likely to hit the imbalance of the pot. If instead of using a B-type you use an A-type you need to make a quarter of a turn, which in most pots is enough to avoid channel imbalance.
Well, it doesn't solve what is an issue with a defective volume potentiometer or attenuator. Start with an otherwise in-spec control, then muck around with the rest of it.
Then are the non-mechanical volume controls...
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I've confirmed that it is play in the potentiometer shaft. For a long time now, and most certainly today with the level of engineering and QC practice and effectiveness is better than ever across the board, I haven't had a potentiometer show this kind of lateral movement. Even the humbler cost parts today, including potentiometers and attenuators are pretty good - they track well, are quiet, have close mechanical and electrical tolerances, and have quality rotational operation feel. I've been a bit surprised at the very solid performance of the less pricey stuff that's available today. It certainly wasn't always like this. There's a mechanical out-of-spec issue with the potentiometer on my SP200.
This potentiometer feels smooth and doesn't make noise through its rotation. Imaging and soundstage are excellent at normal listening volume rotation positions, so tracking at these positions must be working okay enough that center images are centered where they should be - in the center - and that means everything else should be located properly around this. The little SMSL SP200 sounds stellar. Just stellar. I am very pleased with the sonics. VERY. The SP200 build quality is other wise excellent. But I would much prefer that the potentiometer work and feel just like those on every other piece of gear I have, and pretty much have ever owned.
Glad to see that SMSL is ready to stand behind the product. I wanted to confirm what was going on before reaching out. I bought from Apos Audio. The purchase experience with them was outstanding. I sent them a note about the potentiometer on my SP200 today.
Linear vs. logarithmic tapers... …log are also called audio taper. Is a linear taper volume control ever used in a piece of audio gear like this?
This potentiometer feels smooth and doesn't make noise through its rotation. Imaging and soundstage are excellent at normal listening volume rotation positions, so tracking at these positions must be working okay enough that center images are centered where they should be - in the center - and that means everything else should be located properly around this. The little SMSL SP200 sounds stellar. Just stellar. I am very pleased with the sonics. VERY. The SP200 build quality is other wise excellent. But I would much prefer that the potentiometer work and feel just like those on every other piece of gear I have, and pretty much have ever owned.
Glad to see that SMSL is ready to stand behind the product. I wanted to confirm what was going on before reaching out. I bought from Apos Audio. The purchase experience with them was outstanding. I sent them a note about the potentiometer on my SP200 today.
Linear vs. logarithmic tapers... …log are also called audio taper. Is a linear taper volume control ever used in a piece of audio gear like this?
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MRphotography
Member
What should I be looking for on my unit? I’m not sure I am experiencing the same issues? Sorry again as I am new to the forum and this unit.
Oh, I've been wanting to ask. How is the volume potentiometer working in your SP200??
I am VERY pleased with the SP200's sonic performance and drive. Reading and watching reviews of the Drop THX AAA-789, I got some feeling that that amp might be cold, flat, sterile, tonally lean. The SMSL SP200 certainly isn't any of this. I already have a lot of observations logged about the SP200 sonics. It would be fun to share them, but maybe later.
I also have a Drop x THX AAA-789 in queue. Looks like Drop is shipping this most recent drop round this week.
In heading in the direction of these THX AAA amps, what I was looking for to further explore my headphone listening journey was what more power might provide, and especially for the less sensitive planars I have and enjoy.
I got on the Drop 789 drop before I knew about the SMSL and Monoprice options. I grabbed the SMSL because the sonics reviews were stellar - many preferring it to the Drop 789 and comparing its amplification favorably to the Benchmark HPA-4 (though there's a lot more other stuff going on in the HPA-4 than just the amplification part) - and because of its tidy, smaller footprint. And its lower price. It really fits ALL this pretty much perfectly well.
I didn't cancel my Drop 789 order. I'm going to give it a try/comparison. I suspect it's going sound very good. It's just pricier and larger. I'll see which one I'll hold on to.
I am VERY pleased with the SP200's sonic performance and drive. Reading and watching reviews of the Drop THX AAA-789, I got some feeling that that amp might be cold, flat, sterile, tonally lean. The SMSL SP200 certainly isn't any of this. I already have a lot of observations logged about the SP200 sonics. It would be fun to share them, but maybe later.
I also have a Drop x THX AAA-789 in queue. Looks like Drop is shipping this most recent drop round this week.
In heading in the direction of these THX AAA amps, what I was looking for to further explore my headphone listening journey was what more power might provide, and especially for the less sensitive planars I have and enjoy.
I got on the Drop 789 drop before I knew about the SMSL and Monoprice options. I grabbed the SMSL because the sonics reviews were stellar - many preferring it to the Drop 789 and comparing its amplification favorably to the Benchmark HPA-4 (though there's a lot more other stuff going on in the HPA-4 than just the amplification part) - and because of its tidy, smaller footprint. And its lower price. It really fits ALL this pretty much perfectly well.
I didn't cancel my Drop 789 order. I'm going to give it a try/comparison. I suspect it's going sound very good. It's just pricier and larger. I'll see which one I'll hold on to.
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somebodyelse
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They're usually used with a law-faking resistor or in active controls like the Baxandall one. Examples from TI and Rod Elliott.
Apos Audio was ultra quick responding to my service inquiry. My SP200 is already on its way back to wherever such things go. I packed it up and shipped it out as quickly as I could. I was enjoying it so much I want one back as quickly as possible to keep all that good stuff going - ideally with a with a potentiometer where the shaft rotation is coaxial to its rotation center AND has channel tracking as close as the units measured on this handy, dandy forum. That would be just fine. Sadly, I don't have a way to measure this myself. My ears will have to be arbiter.
AND has channel tracking as close as the units measured on this handy, dandy forum. That would be just fine. Sadly, I don't have a way to measure this myself. My ears will have to be arbiter.
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That's entirely opposite to my experience (from days gone by when I used to build stuff) although it does depend on whether you are talking about imbalance near the top of the pot or the bottom.
Creation of an accurate logarithmic track is tricky (i.e. costly). Matching two logarithmic tracks is even costlier and near the bottom (high attenuation) region (where there's a lot of change for each degree of rotation), it wouldn't be untypical for a cheap pot. to suffer an imbalance of 6dB or more.
It's fundamentally easier (i.e. cheaper) to make a linear track where the attenuator material is distributed to an identical density throughout the length of the track. So I used linear pots with a loading resistor (slider to earth) to create an audio law that was passable and, typically, didn't imbalance by much more than 2 or 3 dB.
If nothing is showing up as obviously odd to you, likely you're okay. If you want to explore a bit, gently, firmly hold the volume knob with a couple/few fingers. Gently push and pull the knob back and forth perpendicular to the potentiometer's shaft axis. Move it in all directions/angles from that rotational center. Does the knob move within the faceplate cutout, getting closer and further from the cutout edges? Can you feel, even hear (faint sound of bits touching, lubricant being displaced), any movement here?
Also, holding on to the knob again, gently push and pull, in and out, coaxial to the rotational axis. Can you feel/hear any movement in and out?
All by itself, some movement may not be an issue; it may not have a great effect on channel tracking. It's hard for most of us to measure directly channel balance unless you have the gear to measure it. That's why we like this site. There will be some production fit tolerance variance. I've been pleased at how good low priced stuff can be, and how really good the good stuff is today; some of the better kit even having some adjustment for shaft interference. But, I've had good performance with many brands of inexpensive potentiometers. Things fit together well, the tactile experience is good, and channel balance seems to be good.
Potentiometers and attenuators can muck up sonics and also just be nicer or less pleasant to use (provided you care about those things). They can be rough-feeling to rotate, be noisy,scratchy sounding through speakers or headphones when rotated, just even add noise to the signal, and if the tracking is off enough, soundstage and imaging can be off.
Providing everything else is in order, if sonic soundstage and imaging information shifts and changes - isn't stable in its apparent acoustic position - through the rotation of the potentiometer, l suggest that's an issue. Close channel tracking/balance provides the correct amplitude to the correct channels so that soundstage and imaging can unfold sonically optimally. If recordings where those elements that are in the center of the stage sound like they are happening in the very center of the sound field of either headphones or speakers, that's good and things should all be working properly to have this happen. Other elements of the sound field should be then also placed as well as your ears and your gear can discern it.
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In a logarithmic pot there's little change in the high attenuation region, at least less than in a linear pot.
Also most logarithmic potentiometers are not truly logarithmic, they just use two different linear tapers, one for the first portion where they want little delta and other for the second portion where they want a higher delta. And that is close enough for most applications.
MRphotography
Member
I am not really getting any of those issues, but then again I don't have any other units to reference it against other than my Denon Surround Sound receiver.
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