Those high end graphics cards are known to make a lot of noise... Let us know how your troubleshooting goes.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
SMSL DA9 - Wait and see, or solid buy?
- Thread starter louis_lagrange
- Start date
Welcome Aboard @ADMRL.
Welcome Aboard @PatentLawyer.
Thank you, but fair warning. I straddle the line between between the objectivists and the subjectivists!
Then we have our work cut out for us!
‘Just keep an open mind and everything will be good.
fluxcapacitor
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2020
- Messages
- 115
- Likes
- 72
can someone post photos of it's internals? I'd definitely change psu's output filter capacitors with much higher capacity/grade one, it affects the sound drastically.
fluxcapacitor
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2020
- Messages
- 115
- Likes
- 72
There's some name-brand shtuff in there.
How do they build these things for a profit at $250?
How do they build these things for a profit at $250?
Some high end subjectivist YouTube audiophiles were very impressed. Best HiFi Amp Awarded by Next Best Thing Studio.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I can already tell you that putting so many devices with PWM switching power supplies (bricks) in close proximity WILL increase the likelihood of noise induced from all of the various switching power supplies especially if they all share the same outlet. Mine will arrive later today and I will also be looking out for this noise as it is a fairly common at this point known issue. I've seen an exploded view and I suspect that the in built power supply that doesn't appear to be shielded is the main culprit. I have a bunch of EMI/RFI shielding tape on hand so if I encounter noise, I will start by wrapping the 0.1mm thick shielding tape around the wires, then move on to other area's that involve the switching power supply. Integrating the power brick into the same shell that is aluminum isn't exactly the best way to go when it comes to shielding from EMI. I will post my own findings and attach any photos once I receive the unit and encounter the same noise issue. Hopefully I don't and I don't think that a firmware update can fix this issue if it is indeed EMI induced noise. The only fix would be to properly shield the power-supply. The outgoing DA-8s which I've had since it's release has an external brick and mine doesn't share any outlets with my PC or other audio equipment. The cable is long enough that it's on a totally isolated power outlet. Hopefully this is something that is easily fixable. I have not ran unbalanced inputs in years so I couldn't tell you anything about RCA level inputs and noise. If this is noise picked up from the mains, then that's another story all together. SMSL has been making reputable products for some time now, I don't think that they are clueless in their designs. Hopefully you'll try out some of my suggestions such as moving some of your power bricks, and not sharing the same power source/sockets. Expansion blocks that use the same power line is not going to change anything, I suggest another outlet all together before you decide to send it back.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Thanks for posting very useful pictures. The switching power supply is clearly unshielded and to make things worse, it's in an aluminum box. Not exactly a faraday cage. I suspect that this is something that can be easily rectified with EMI shielding tape, several companies sell this type of self adhesive film tape. Even copper tape on the lid would probably make a difference. Aluminum is not ideal for housing an integral amplifier and a switching power supply that is not encased or shielded. That is unless of course you removed some shields so we can see inside which I don't think you have done. Mine is scheduled for delivery in an hour or so. I will find out in my environment if I hear any PSU related noise. I will try for arguments sake both XLR and RCA. I'll even use a 3.5mm to RCA from my mobile and also PC to see if there are any differences. I posted that "power bricks" which are switching power supplies create noise, and if you have multiple bricks on the same outlet that you are increasing the likelihood of noise creeping in. If your computer shares the same socket it's even worse! So to say a piece of equipment by itself is faulty or a poor design isn't entirely accurate or fair.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I just received my DA-9.
ZERO noise at all.
I do have a Monster Cable Power Center/Filter from about 20 years ago and my audio gear is connected through that.
I tried RCA's and no noise. I have yet to try bluetooth and probably won't bother with it.
To explain my power routing. My PC is on it's own outlet with my 3 external hard drives, the monitor is also connected to that power/surge strip.
All audio gear runs through my Monster Cable Power Center from about 20 years ago. It was second from the top of the line before they went digital display to give you an idea of how old it is. RME ADI-2 DAC fs and it's power brick is connected to the Monster filter also. I have another Class-D amplifier that is constantly powered but rarely used, and they exhibit no noise either.
Separating and moving power bricks makes a huge difference. Also lifting them off the floor with even wood is helpful if you encounter noise.
It's basic stuff but I used to work in high-end car audio when I first started in the audio industry in 92. Back then the cars were noise makers. They would pick up turn signal noise, alternator noise, sparkplug noise. So routing of wires was extremely important. We would remove all the seats to start off and all wires would intersect at 90 degrees, power, signal were ran on different sides of the car. That sort of practice stopped as the electronics got better but the basics still apply and applies to home audio as well. Every cable that carries a signal or voltage emits or receives outside influence. It's too easy to forget that these days.
Cheers, happy listening. I'm enjoying and getting used to the DA-9 right now. I'm hoping it'll sound a little bit different in the coming days even though it's Class D. Those caps and resistors will burn-in a tiny bit.
ZERO noise at all.
I do have a Monster Cable Power Center/Filter from about 20 years ago and my audio gear is connected through that.
I tried RCA's and no noise. I have yet to try bluetooth and probably won't bother with it.
To explain my power routing. My PC is on it's own outlet with my 3 external hard drives, the monitor is also connected to that power/surge strip.
All audio gear runs through my Monster Cable Power Center from about 20 years ago. It was second from the top of the line before they went digital display to give you an idea of how old it is. RME ADI-2 DAC fs and it's power brick is connected to the Monster filter also. I have another Class-D amplifier that is constantly powered but rarely used, and they exhibit no noise either.
Separating and moving power bricks makes a huge difference. Also lifting them off the floor with even wood is helpful if you encounter noise.
It's basic stuff but I used to work in high-end car audio when I first started in the audio industry in 92. Back then the cars were noise makers. They would pick up turn signal noise, alternator noise, sparkplug noise. So routing of wires was extremely important. We would remove all the seats to start off and all wires would intersect at 90 degrees, power, signal were ran on different sides of the car. That sort of practice stopped as the electronics got better but the basics still apply and applies to home audio as well. Every cable that carries a signal or voltage emits or receives outside influence. It's too easy to forget that these days.
Cheers, happy listening. I'm enjoying and getting used to the DA-9 right now. I'm hoping it'll sound a little bit different in the coming days even though it's Class D. Those caps and resistors will burn-in a tiny bit.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I'm currently playing a 3 part special on the knights templar, it's recorded @48000hz 128kbps so not the highest resolution.
Playing through my RME ADI-2 DAC fs, I can hear the leading edge of the narrators voice with such clarity that the DA-8s I used to use seems like a toy. This isn't a step forward in fidelity, it's more like 2 big steps. My speakers are a nominal 2.7ohms and the DA-8s didn't have that much difficulty because I had added capacitance (nearly 2.5x) over the standard setup, but the DA-9 just doesn't care at all. I tried my 6ohm nominal 2 ways, and my 8ohm 24db/oct speakers and the amplifier played the speakers with equal ease. I haven't encountered any noise at all that other people have experienced not to say that it's not possible. I might be lucky, or it could be my old monstercable power center from the late 90's before they used LED screens. And that unit had a 50-50 review, mostly probably because they cost so much and not everybody could tell the difference. I noticed straight away that my DVD picture quality improved which told me that it does something. For anyone considering the DA-9, I would just purchase one. To me it's a no brainer. I played the 4LP Pink Floyd PULSE LP because LP's play a wider bandwidth than any digital recording, including all of the imperfections. After playing the 4LP's, I turned the amplifier off for 5 minutes. Went back and went back to XLR and played music that I am very familiar with and the sound had opened up a huge amount. I won't use words that magazines use to describe sound, but yeah, there was a vast improvement. I tried using Nordost's Burn-In CD but that didn't work nearly as well. Records are the way to get things burned in quicker.
I cannot recommend this amplifier enough. I am staggered. I have multiple tube amplifiers that I've built and I would compare the sound of the DA-9 between a new, current generation Class AB and a Pentode amplifier of about 45watts/channel. This tiny amplifier really crushes it. It doesn't have the older style, sterile Class-D sound. It improves vastly the sound that the DA-8s had. And the DA-8s was no slouch. If you want a new toy, just buy one. I am fairly sure you will not be disappointed. No personal guarantee, but I would HIGHLY recommend this amplifier. There will inevitably be a firmware update eventually. But I'm assuming it would be some minor menu tweaks.
As always, Happy Listening!
Playing through my RME ADI-2 DAC fs, I can hear the leading edge of the narrators voice with such clarity that the DA-8s I used to use seems like a toy. This isn't a step forward in fidelity, it's more like 2 big steps. My speakers are a nominal 2.7ohms and the DA-8s didn't have that much difficulty because I had added capacitance (nearly 2.5x) over the standard setup, but the DA-9 just doesn't care at all. I tried my 6ohm nominal 2 ways, and my 8ohm 24db/oct speakers and the amplifier played the speakers with equal ease. I haven't encountered any noise at all that other people have experienced not to say that it's not possible. I might be lucky, or it could be my old monstercable power center from the late 90's before they used LED screens. And that unit had a 50-50 review, mostly probably because they cost so much and not everybody could tell the difference. I noticed straight away that my DVD picture quality improved which told me that it does something. For anyone considering the DA-9, I would just purchase one. To me it's a no brainer. I played the 4LP Pink Floyd PULSE LP because LP's play a wider bandwidth than any digital recording, including all of the imperfections. After playing the 4LP's, I turned the amplifier off for 5 minutes. Went back and went back to XLR and played music that I am very familiar with and the sound had opened up a huge amount. I won't use words that magazines use to describe sound, but yeah, there was a vast improvement. I tried using Nordost's Burn-In CD but that didn't work nearly as well. Records are the way to get things burned in quicker.
I cannot recommend this amplifier enough. I am staggered. I have multiple tube amplifiers that I've built and I would compare the sound of the DA-9 between a new, current generation Class AB and a Pentode amplifier of about 45watts/channel. This tiny amplifier really crushes it. It doesn't have the older style, sterile Class-D sound. It improves vastly the sound that the DA-8s had. And the DA-8s was no slouch. If you want a new toy, just buy one. I am fairly sure you will not be disappointed. No personal guarantee, but I would HIGHLY recommend this amplifier. There will inevitably be a firmware update eventually. But I'm assuming it would be some minor menu tweaks.
As always, Happy Listening!
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Since this is a discussion on the SMSL DA-9 and some users have noticed noise issues, I'm posting this product that aides in combating EMI.
Oyaide Electric MWA-010T
Electromagnetic wave control material tape, 10mm width. Or in proper English, it's a 0.1mm thin tape that is 20mm in width. It's a sticker, so you can wrap wires, you can stick in on any surface *take care of electrical contacts as it will conduct electricity*, I've used the 0.3mm material on my tube amplifiers output transformers, the majority of the metal chassis, and it doesn't raise the temperature measured with a temp-gun when applied. It also eliminated microphonics in it's entirety. It's about $40 per roll, about 5metres. It has a noticeable effect when applied around or behind speaker binding posts improving clarity. And that's not some marketing gimmick, it is an audible one. If you wrap film capacitors with them, the negative effects of inductors in a passive crossover becomes clear, somehow this material improves clarity. If you know the term Otaku, which means literally ultra geek, then this is the type of stuff that Japanese audiophiles purchase simply because it does work. It's better than a faraday cage in how it works. People over here apply a larger sheet A4 paper sized, slightly smaller than US legal letter sized 0.3mm thick sheets on the back of their fuse panels. Japanese apartment complexes often times don't have a third post or earth. Up until very recently, they had the same width posts for the plugs. Polarity wasn't a concern, though professional electricians would always confirm the polarity. The only issue being that you might plug your device in the opposite way. On any digital device such as a CD player you would hear a difference. I purchased a non-conductive tester so I can check the polarity of every socket in my apartment to be sure that they have it right. Just for kicks, I turned the plug around on my cd player, a Rotel which has a traditional plug, but is missing the third middle post or earth, though subtle the sound was indeed different. We do live in a soup of invisible electrical waves all around us. So it makes perfect sense that we are picking up noise more and more. There are ways to combat this issue as I have posted in previous posts.
I would probably apply the tape where the yellow material or tape is on the switching psu.
Mainly I want people to know how well this little amplifier plays music, and does justice to music. We can look at the specs and be in awe, but the way it sounds is truly something that is special regardless of price. If the amplifier was in a larger more substantial case, had a major brand name on it, you would pay a significantly larger sum for it without hesitation. The only reason why people are hesitant is because SMSL is known as "budget". There is nothing budget about the sound this amplifier is capable of.
The specs that mx2 posted, and simplified:
LOF350-20B24 Air cooling Output power 199.9w 24V/8.33A 22.8-25.2 *measured at 230VAC 93% efficiency/ 3200uf 105℃ /20.5CFM 350.4 24V/14.6A
Oyaide Electric MWA-010T
Electromagnetic wave control material tape, 10mm width. Or in proper English, it's a 0.1mm thin tape that is 20mm in width. It's a sticker, so you can wrap wires, you can stick in on any surface *take care of electrical contacts as it will conduct electricity*, I've used the 0.3mm material on my tube amplifiers output transformers, the majority of the metal chassis, and it doesn't raise the temperature measured with a temp-gun when applied. It also eliminated microphonics in it's entirety. It's about $40 per roll, about 5metres. It has a noticeable effect when applied around or behind speaker binding posts improving clarity. And that's not some marketing gimmick, it is an audible one. If you wrap film capacitors with them, the negative effects of inductors in a passive crossover becomes clear, somehow this material improves clarity. If you know the term Otaku, which means literally ultra geek, then this is the type of stuff that Japanese audiophiles purchase simply because it does work. It's better than a faraday cage in how it works. People over here apply a larger sheet A4 paper sized, slightly smaller than US legal letter sized 0.3mm thick sheets on the back of their fuse panels. Japanese apartment complexes often times don't have a third post or earth. Up until very recently, they had the same width posts for the plugs. Polarity wasn't a concern, though professional electricians would always confirm the polarity. The only issue being that you might plug your device in the opposite way. On any digital device such as a CD player you would hear a difference. I purchased a non-conductive tester so I can check the polarity of every socket in my apartment to be sure that they have it right. Just for kicks, I turned the plug around on my cd player, a Rotel which has a traditional plug, but is missing the third middle post or earth, though subtle the sound was indeed different. We do live in a soup of invisible electrical waves all around us. So it makes perfect sense that we are picking up noise more and more. There are ways to combat this issue as I have posted in previous posts.
I would probably apply the tape where the yellow material or tape is on the switching psu.
Mainly I want people to know how well this little amplifier plays music, and does justice to music. We can look at the specs and be in awe, but the way it sounds is truly something that is special regardless of price. If the amplifier was in a larger more substantial case, had a major brand name on it, you would pay a significantly larger sum for it without hesitation. The only reason why people are hesitant is because SMSL is known as "budget". There is nothing budget about the sound this amplifier is capable of.
The specs that mx2 posted, and simplified:
LOF350-20B24 Air cooling Output power 199.9w 24V/8.33A 22.8-25.2 *measured at 230VAC 93% efficiency/ 3200uf 105℃ /20.5CFM 350.4 24V/14.6A
Attachments
Last edited:
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
oh thanks great photos, there's just nothing on the internet regarding inside of this unit. You're the first i could see
Thank you for posting this valuable information. It is indeed Mornsun LOF350-20B24.
I posted the specs in a more easy to read (than the pdf file). I'm surprised at how little capacitance they're using, and it seems they are stating that is the Maximum.
jokan
Addicted to Fun and Learning
An important remote control cross-compatibility issue I just found.
I only use headphones when I'm on the go so I never intended to bother with the B.T.5.0. Well in touching the FN or BT button on the DA-9, my RME ADI-2 DAC fs started changing functions! I think it activated and deactivated the tone controls on my RME! I'm not sure about any other functions but I'm pretty sure there are some more buttons that make my RME do unintended operations!
So fair warning to you guys who have both the DA-9 and the RME ADI2 DAC fs, it's gonna get weird! It also happened with my old DA-8s so it's a frequency thing but I never used BT on the DA-8s. Weird!
Some additional feedback as I've been doing some critical listening. My amplifier the DA-9 has fully burned-in now. There is no discernable improvement with any track I throw at it. The 4LP Pink Floyd playback using my phonostage stage and RCA inputs definitely sped the process up. Cliché wording but everything is more focused, the highs are more extended, and compared to the DA-8s the soundstage is much wider and also taller. Channel separation seems to be one of it's strong suits also. This amplifier is the cheapest component in my desktop system, and I might buy another to shelve my other tube amplifier. Tubes have a more musical melodic sound yes, but for more modern recordings the DA-9 is just brilliant.
If you've never heard of a group called Yello, there is a track called "The Race". It's well recorded and is and is a sort of weird Engines roaring around for several minutes along with an announcer giving a play by play. A good amplifier/speaker will make this track sound like you are in the middle of an oval. CD quality is more than adequate for the track since I think they didn't have CD's when the track came out. It's late 70's or 1980 for the release date, unfortunately only the reissue is available now. The rese of the album is meh, but this track can show off what good 2 channel stereo can do.
I wish the DA-9 had a timer function now too. Otherwise like I did with my DA-8s, it's never going to be turned off and it's going to have a Balanced logo burned into the OLED screen. Or they could just add a display off option.
As I stated earlier in my posts, my loudspeakers, self designed and built are a nominal 2.7ohms and yeah it's intentionally a low impedance setup otherwise I'd have to wire the 2 woofers in series, add a bunch of resistors to the crossover to attenuate the tweeters and I'm not going to do that. The great news I have is that the 2.7ohm load is not an issue at all for the amplifier. I don't notice any lack of control with soft clipping on or off at moderate listening volumes, and at high volumes, I turn on the soft clipping to be safe, but the amplifier is room below room temperature. My audio rack is made of HDF and the rack is warmer than the amplifier, even after prolonged playing.
I'll update as I find out new things or encounter any noise issues. There are so many variables where noise might creep in. So far so good and zero noise.
As always, Happy Listening!
I only use headphones when I'm on the go so I never intended to bother with the B.T.5.0. Well in touching the FN or BT button on the DA-9, my RME ADI-2 DAC fs started changing functions! I think it activated and deactivated the tone controls on my RME! I'm not sure about any other functions but I'm pretty sure there are some more buttons that make my RME do unintended operations!
So fair warning to you guys who have both the DA-9 and the RME ADI2 DAC fs, it's gonna get weird! It also happened with my old DA-8s so it's a frequency thing but I never used BT on the DA-8s. Weird!
Some additional feedback as I've been doing some critical listening. My amplifier the DA-9 has fully burned-in now. There is no discernable improvement with any track I throw at it. The 4LP Pink Floyd playback using my phonostage stage and RCA inputs definitely sped the process up. Cliché wording but everything is more focused, the highs are more extended, and compared to the DA-8s the soundstage is much wider and also taller. Channel separation seems to be one of it's strong suits also. This amplifier is the cheapest component in my desktop system, and I might buy another to shelve my other tube amplifier. Tubes have a more musical melodic sound yes, but for more modern recordings the DA-9 is just brilliant.
If you've never heard of a group called Yello, there is a track called "The Race". It's well recorded and is and is a sort of weird Engines roaring around for several minutes along with an announcer giving a play by play. A good amplifier/speaker will make this track sound like you are in the middle of an oval. CD quality is more than adequate for the track since I think they didn't have CD's when the track came out. It's late 70's or 1980 for the release date, unfortunately only the reissue is available now. The rese of the album is meh, but this track can show off what good 2 channel stereo can do.
I wish the DA-9 had a timer function now too. Otherwise like I did with my DA-8s, it's never going to be turned off and it's going to have a Balanced logo burned into the OLED screen. Or they could just add a display off option.
As I stated earlier in my posts, my loudspeakers, self designed and built are a nominal 2.7ohms and yeah it's intentionally a low impedance setup otherwise I'd have to wire the 2 woofers in series, add a bunch of resistors to the crossover to attenuate the tweeters and I'm not going to do that. The great news I have is that the 2.7ohm load is not an issue at all for the amplifier. I don't notice any lack of control with soft clipping on or off at moderate listening volumes, and at high volumes, I turn on the soft clipping to be safe, but the amplifier is room below room temperature. My audio rack is made of HDF and the rack is warmer than the amplifier, even after prolonged playing.
I'll update as I find out new things or encounter any noise issues. There are so many variables where noise might creep in. So far so good and zero noise.
As always, Happy Listening!
fluxcapacitor
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2020
- Messages
- 115
- Likes
- 72
I'm planning to buy DA-9 and bypassing onboard cheapo power supply with modified meanwell one.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2019
- Messages
- 495
- Likes
- 894
Technology is blowing us away. I want to buy one of these and put in inside a gutted-out classic McIntosh or Audio Research amp that wasn't worth repairing and I can have the best of both worlds. I can have a proven classic of high stature on the shelf plus a respectable clean modern sound, and I it will be relatively light weight.
Similar threads
