SMSL DA9 - Wait and see, or solid buy?

[louis_lagrange]

https://apos.audio/products/smsl-da...rbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJicHVsaWRvZHR4QGdtYWlsLmNvbSJ9

 

[RikB]

https://apos.audio/products/smsl-da9-bluetooth-amplifier?utm_campaign=SMSL VMV A1 + DA9 Launch (TpiPss)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=All Customers who Accept Marketing&_ke=eyJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIkxkazhTVyIsICJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJicHVsaWRvZHR4QGdtYWlsLmNvbSJ9

It looks like the SMSL DA-8S but with better THD+N/SNR, a better screen and a subwoofer out. The amp power looks to be the same though

 

[HorizonsEdge]

it is a complete unknown

I looked at apos and could not find a reference to the actual class D chip, just the manufacturer. Maybe I missed it?

 

[Tuocsteem]

It's listed as the Infineon MA12070 on Audiphonics here. The chip performance was discussed in another thread on the SMSL SA300 which uses the same chip. Don't know if this is accurate as the listing is still quite new.

Seems like the specs are heavily cherry-picked e.g. power is rated at a crazy 10% THD while they claim 0.003% THD+N which makes no sense as Infineon only claims 0.008% for 1W/4 Ohm for the chip itself. Maybe they're listing the spec for 8 ohm, maybe they've got two chips bridged to mono, maybe it's all made up... I'd expect significantly less clean power than what is stated.

Looks like this is still a decent option if you want balanced in, sub out, tone control etc. at a reasonable price with better fidelity than the PA amps that offer the same feature set (although the trade off is you get much, much less power here). Tests posted on the SA300 thread seem to imply that the amp is nice and quiet (if implemented correctly) so the listed SNR spec is probably just about legit- good for desktop use I guess.

 

[KiyPhi]

I am also interested in this unit so I did some digging. The amp itself was designed by Shenzhen Audio and not SMSL but SMSL makes it. The chip is indeed a MA12070 like stated (it is shown in one of the screenshots but a bit blurry) but there appears to be one bridged per channel.

I have been messaging Shenzhen about it for more info and they said they will have one of their technicians get back with me in a bit. They should be letting me know distortion at the rated power at 8 ohms, the parameters that they used to get the THD+N graph on their product page. I suspect 8 ohms based off of what I have heard. They also should be letting me know what input voltage is required to get the rated power as the SH-9 took a bit over 5v.

So far they have told me I can get full power with either input and that gain is changed based on input (but they didn't specify if either input needed a higher than nominal voltage yet). I'll update when I hear more.

 

[Toku]

This product is an SMSL product planned by Shenzhen Audio.
It is a completely upgraded version of DA-8s.
The unpopular display was changed to the same type as the SU-9, and a MEAN WELL power supply was built in.
The output circuit has been changed from the MA12070 single BTL to the MA12070 dual PBTL to increase the power that was often lacking as a desktop amplifier.
Overall, it is a product that mixes the technologies of SA300, SU-9 and DA-8s. Technically, I think SMSL is already familiar with it.
So I don't think there are any obstacles to purchasing.

 

[Destination: Moon]

What's the DAC in this - it receives BT? (I'm assuming it must have a DAC?)

 

[HorizonsEdge]

What's the DAC in this - it receives BT? (I'm assuming it must have a DAC?)

If you read the page it will actually tell you so you do not have to assume!

 

[Destination: Moon]

If you read the page it will actually tell you so you do not have to assume!

Thanks, I read it but it's confusing or I don't understand what they're saying..... That BT has its own circuitry?

I have an SMSL su9 - it has BT but it also has an ess dac..,.. So does that mean my su9 doesn't use the ess dac when it's receiving bt??

 

[Toku]

What's the DAC in this - it receives BT? (I'm assuming it must have a DAC?)

The DAC function is built into the BT receiver module. However, the type of receiving module used has not been announced.
The analog signal output from the BT receiver module is input to the electronic volume chip of the NJW1194.

Thanks, I read it but it's confusing or I don't understand what they're saying..... That BT has its own circuitry?

I have an SMSL su9 - it has BT but it also has an ess dac..,.. So does that mean my su9 doesn't use the ess dac when it's receiving bt??

BT is normally output as an analog signal from the receiving module, but it can also be output as an I2S digital signal and can be input to the DAC chip of the ESS9038Pro.
I can't say for sure which one I'm using because I don't have a detailed inside photo of the SU-9.

 

[KiyPhi]

I received word from their technician. The graph on the website is indeed the 8 ohm graph. The THD at max power into 8 ohm is 0.002% and can be done with RCA at 2v or XLR at 4v so there's isn't a direct need to use a DAC with higher voltage like some other amps to get fully rated power. I think I will go ahead and take the plunge since I already have the SU-9 and SH-9. I will measure the voltage out myself once I get it though I won't be able to prove THD or anything.

Edit: Bought it from ShenZhen instead of Apos since I couldn't get them to reply to me for over a week which was a stark difference from when I bought the SMSL stack and a pair of Ananda from them.

 

[JohnnyN]

I received word from their technician. The graph on the website is indeed the 8 ohm graph. The THD at max power into 8 ohm is 0.002% and can be done with RCA at 2v or XLR at 4v so there's isn't a direct need to use a DAC with higher voltage like some other amps to get fully rated power. I think I will go ahead and take the plunge since I already have the SU-9 and SH-9. I will measure the voltage out myself once I get it though I won't be able to prove THD or anything.

Edit: Bought it from ShenZhen instead of Apos since I couldn't get them to reply to me for over a week which was a stark difference from when I bought the SMSL stack and a pair of Ananda from them.

So the 90w into 4 ohm / 50w into 8 ohm power rating is likely close to being real/legitimate? The addition of a second chip (and the MEAN WELL power supply) has that big of an impact on power compared to the DA-8S or the Loxjie A-30, which Amir measured here as 40w into 4 ohm and 18w into 8 ohm?

 

[KiyPhi]

So the 90w into 4 ohm / 50w into 8 ohm power rating is likely close to being real/legitimate? The addition of a second chip (and the MEAN WELL power supply) has that big of an impact on power compared to the DA-8S or the Loxjie A-30, which Amir measured here as 40w into 4 ohm and 18w into 8 ohm?

One thing to keep in mind is that it was measured with one chip into two channels. From what I understand, they are essentially bridging each channel so it is similar to having a bridged stereo amplifier per channel. On some products like the NAD C328 Amir measured, I think that went from 80w to 260W. There are similar trends in other speaker amplifiers. I don't think it is too much of a stretch to think they got a little over double the power when doubling the amplifiers and bridging them. Plus they did publish a power graph. The only thing I would worry too much about would be the voltage in. Mine comes in Friday so we will measure the voltage then.

 

[JohnnyN]

Interesting - didn't realize the addition of a second chip could have that large of an effect / is similar to a bridged set-up. Another thing that's interesting: the listed specs of the SMSL DA-8S (with the single chip) are 80w into 4 ohm, 40w into 2 ohm. So perhaps SMSL decided to take a more honest approach with its measurements of the DA-9, compared to the DA-8S. I guess that'd make sense--otherwise, on paper, there's a 50% increase in price for 10 more watts of power and a larger screen.

 

[JohnnyN]

Would this compete with a Hypex NCore NC122MP amplifier? I'm looking for an amplifier for a small living room for a pair of 86db speakers. Currently using a Loxjie A30, but I’m going to use that near-field on a desktop and so need to replace it. I’m between the SMSL DA-9 and Audiophonics’ Hypex NCore NC122MP amplifier.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...wer-amplifier-ncore-2x125w-4-ohm-p-14516.html

Amir measured March Audio’s Hypex NC122MP amplifier here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...io-p122-class-d-amplifier-measurements.11801/

 

[RikB]

It depends what you mean by compete. The Hypex would no doubt measure better and have more power. It also costs more though. If I could choose either for free, I'd choose the Hypex. Your speakers aren't very sensitive, but if you are in a small room, I'd guess the SMSL would be fine. It'd be more powerful than the A30. I use the (similar to A30) SMSL DA-8S with 89db speakers (6 ohm) and don't feel any need to upgrade, but I don't play at rock concert levels.

 

[KiyPhi]

Just to update, I put 2v in unbalanced and 4v into balanced and got 23v out both times. I would think theoretically balanced is better since it has to use less gain but I could be wrong. Either way, from a pure "can it put power out like it says," it actually goes a slight bit above what it claims for 8 ohms.

I also made the most quiet tone I could, both at 24kHz and 1Hz and turned the amp up to max to test noise. There is a very, very small amount at and near max but I couldn't get a dB reading because the ambient noise of the wind outside and whatnot was far louder than the sound itself. It was more quiet than my NAD C328 with the same tests and would be nowhere near normal listening levels for my KEF R3 which are comfortably loud from my position at 20/70 and super loud at 30/70 and would get me kicked out of my apartment if I went much higher.

Controls are nice. It has built in tone control (+/-10dB on both) as well as some preset "EQ" that are more or less just more tone controls. No sub out cutoff control but most subs have crossover control so not a big issue. Works with the same remote that the other two work with so you can do your whole stack with one remote.

It stacks very nicely with my other SMSL-9 series so it seems a worthwhile buy, especially if you have the SU-9 and SH-9 already. I might go with a spread instead of a stack. I need to get another balanced DAC though because I want my EQ set on a per device thing and having two SU-9 would make controls awkward.

 

[pqrst]

It stacks very nicely with my other SMSL-9 series so it seems a worthwhile buy, especially if you have the SU-9 and SH-9 already. I might go with a spread instead of a stack. I need to get another balanced DAC though because I want my EQ set on a per device thing and having two SU-9 would make controls awkward.

How'd you connect SU-9, SH-9, and DA-9 together? The SH-9 doesn't have a passthrough/pre-out.

 

[JohnnyN]

It depends what you mean by compete. The Hypex would no doubt measure better and have more power. It also costs more though. If I could choose either for free, I'd choose the Hypex. Your speakers aren't very sensitive, but if you are in a small room, I'd guess the SMSL would be fine. It'd be more powerful than the A30. I use the (similar to A30) SMSL DA-8S with 89db speakers (6 ohm) and don't feel any need to upgrade, but I don't play at rock concert levels.

Thanks for your response, RikB. If I’m understanding correctly, then if the DA-9 measures close to spec (and it appears as if it would), then the DA-9 is providing 90w into 4 ohm and 50w into 8 ohm, while the Hypex provides 103w into 4 ohm and 55w into 8 ohm, per Amir’s measurements? Is that a fair power comparison or is the Hypex actually more powerful than that in comparison? Not sure if the DA-9 power spec is at a higher distortion level and so to get a fairer comparison to the Hypex would have to allow for a higher level of distortion? I understand that the Hypex is more powerful, just trying to better understand by how much (and I’m a bit new to this).

My speakers are are also 6 ohm, by the way (86 db).

 

[Premonition]

Thanks for your response, RikB. If I’m understanding correctly, then if the DA-9 measures close to spec (and it appears as if it would), then the DA-9 is providing 90w into 4 ohm and 50w into 8 ohm, while the Hypex provides 103w into 4 ohm and 55w into 8 ohm, per Amir’s measurements? Is that a fair power comparison or is the Hypex actually more powerful than that in comparison? Not sure if the DA-9 power spec is at a higher distortion level and so to get a fairer comparison to the Hypex would have to allow for a higher level of distortion? I understand that the Hypex is more powerful, just trying to better understand by how much (and I’m a bit new to this).

I wonder about this as well, hopefully someone here could get the unit and measure its actual power.

What DAC will you be using with them? Also to keep in mind is that most of the Hypex NC122mp's available are only power amplifiers with balanced inputs, I also hate that many of them only have the power switch at the back, who the hell wants to reach to the back of an amp to turn it on and off!? I've considered getting one from March Audio, but would need my Topping D50s to double as a preamp and need to convert RCA to balanced. Ultimately, it was the killer shipping prices that made me give up, USD90 for shipping smh.

The DA-9 on the other hand has a remote, bluetooth, a screen, both RCA and balanced inputs, a much more convenient product imo.