SIVGA SV021 Headphone Review

[IAtaman]

@amirm , good point when you say "Lesson for people who say: "listen before you measure." If I had done that, I would have told you that it sounded fine! The truth come out in AB testing against equalized response which required measurements.". I've found that to be the case too, where I've switched to another headphone or EQ and thought yes this is definitely better - it's amazing what kind of crazy frequency responses your ears can get used to in headphones, but quickly AB'ing highlights where improvements can be made, especially if that AB'ing effect is consistent when you revisit the same situation a few days later, just to prove it wasn't a momentary quirk of your brain longing for a different aspect in the music. Eventhough our ears can get used to some crazy frequency responses, I do find & believe that finetuning to a more ideal frequency response can give you greater musical enjoyment in the long run.

This relates back to the theory that our brain corrects for idiosyncrasies in FR ears detect to make it sound like it "should" I take it, and the fallability of our audio memory If I understand you correctly? That makes sense. Wouldn't then a listening protocol that goes "listen to reference device, switch to the new device, look at measurements" make more sense?

 

[solderdude]

After reading the price, I was worried they would be recommended because they are cheap.



I suspect there is some history or argument going on that I am not aware of, so might be stepping on a landmine here. Oh well, curiosity killed the cat. Could you please help me understand the following:

• With this out of box tuning, you really think you would not be able to tell the tonality is crap without looking at the FR?
• Listen before you measure made sense to me on the face of it as I have experienced myself it is very easy to hear things you expect to hear, but I do not have much insight into the counter argument. Would you mind elaborating please.

I think Amir means: A headphone may not be perfectly truthful but still sound pleasant and seductive. Certainly at first glance.
I tested and measured a Yamaha HPH-MT7 just yesterday and on first listen it sounded 'impressive' with punchy bass and 'highlighted' details.
When listened to more closely there was sharpness and songs with the bass being played over a wide 'range' showed there was coloration in the bass instead of 'just good punch' and sharpness that could be grating with some recordings (think Mt Beyer).
When measuring it (seal mattered) and compared directly it is easy to see these headphones were not intended for 'accuracy' but for a purpose.

 

[IAtaman]

I think Amir means: A headphone may not be perfectly truthful but still sound pleasant and seductive. Certainly at first glance.
I tested and measured a Yamaha HPH-MT7 just yesterday and on first listen it sounded 'impressive' with punchy bass and 'highlighted' details.
When listened to more closely there was sharpness and songs with the bass being played over a wide 'range' showed there was coloration in the bass instead of 'just good punch' and sharpness that could be grating with some recordings (think Mt Beyer).
When measuring it (seal mattered) and compared directly it is easy to see these headphones were not intended for 'accuracy' but for a purpose.

I am not a trained listener, not even close, but if I am listening to a song I heard many times before, especially a female vocal song, I like to think that I could tell something is wrong if 500hz and 150hz were 15db apart as you said. That range is more or less the fundamental and first couple of harmonics of human voice isn't it?

What is your approach to listening if you don't mind me asking, do you think it is better to listen first, measure later or measure first, listen after you see the measurements?

 

[solderdude]

I am not a trained listener, not even close, but if I am listening to a song I heard many times before, especially a female vocal song, I like to think that I could tell something is wrong if 500hz and 150hz were 15db apart as you said. That range is more of less the fundamental and first couple of harmonics of human voice isn't it?

That still doesn't mean it will sound poor. Elevated bass, recessed mids and elevated treble is liked by a lot of people. It also depends on the music one has at hand.

What is your approach to listening if you don't mind me asking, do you think it is better to listen first, measure later or measure first, listen after you see the measurements?

It varies. Sometimes I listen first and measure later. Sometimes I measure first and listen later. In the end it always comes together but have heard headphones that measure nicely yet do not excite me and have heard headphones that have 'something' going for them I liked but in the end sound wrong.

Sometimes I listen to a reference first and sometimes I grab it afterwards and also come to a conclusion I like the sound but it isn't 'reference grade'.

Most headphone buyers listen first and measure never or even look at measurements or opinions. Nothing wrong with that unless one is looking for reference grade headphones.

Over time I found that the headphones I enjoy most have an even response but might have a warm to neutral 'tilt' in it. Peaks and dips troubled headphones are not what I end up with for a long period.
When EQ is not always an option I like headphones that do things 'right' but can have a tilt.

 

[IAtaman]

That still doesn't mean it will sound poor. Elevated bass, recessed mids and elevated treble is liked by a lot of people. It also depends on the music one has at hand.

Yes sure, I am not trying to argue whether it would sound good or not. My point is if a headphone is producing 150hz and 500hz 15db apart from each other, surely you do not need to see an FR to recognize something is off in tonality if you are listening to a vocal song you listened to many times. Do you disagree with that point?

 

[solderdude]

I do not disagree with that point but that does not mean the headphone has to sound as terrible as it measured.
I mean:

This suggests good deep bass (well extended) with some 'punch' (100Hz-300Hz elevated a bit), good clarity (1kHz to 6kHz following the curve on average, and some extra treble and treble extension without a lot of peaks/dips. At least ... above 6kHz it becomes a crap-shoot anyway.
I can see why this headphone may not sound 'bad' at first listen even though the dip at 500Hz would give some 'hollow' sounding coloration to voices.
Would I prefer it over another headphone ? Most likely not. Still may sound 'impressive' and pleasant to some.

Product variance, differences in fixtures, as it is closed it may sound different on the head than on a fixture.

 

[IAtaman]

I do not disagree with that point but that does not mean the headphone has to sound as terrible as it measured.

Okay, thank you. And FWIW, agree, measurement is not the whole story when it comes to headphones and IEMs, that I have learned.

I mean:

This suggests good deep bass (well extended) with some 'punch' (100Hz-300Hz elevated a bit), good clarity (1kHz to 6kHz following the curve on average, and some extra treble and treble extension without a lot of peaks/dips.
I can see why this headphone may not sound 'bad' at first listen even though the dip at 500Hz would give some coloration.

Product variance, differences in fixtures, as it is closed it may sound different on the head than on a fixture.

The graph you shared looks very different to the one Amir's measurements produced. This looks a lot more compressed, and I guess it is normalized to a different level so everything looks more proportional. With elevated bass and extended treble, this looks more like a V-Shape headphone than the mess other graphs indicate. Isn't this another reason why it might be better to listen first and measure later? Measurements are not gonna change based on your listening results, but what you hear might change based on what you see on the measurements no? Isn't that the whole point of blind testing?

 

[Robbo99999]

This relates back to the theory that our brain corrects for idiosyncrasies in FR ears detect to make it sound like it "should" I take it, and the fallability of our audio memory If I understand you correctly? That makes sense. Wouldn't then a listening protocol that goes "listen to reference device, switch to the new device, look at measurements" make more sense?

That's a good idea, and I'd be inclined to agree with that.

 

[bloodshoteyed]

@Amir you have been crushing out the Reviews lately! Nice Job. The new meds must be working.

i just hope you guys didn't put him on:

but on a more serious note, i hope it was meant as a joke and not that he's ill or something?

 

[AdamG]

i hope it was meant as a joke and not that he's ill or something?

Yes, a joke. Amir being sick or something is public knowledge. He retired so he could work here like a dog for basically no pay and as much grief as he cares to eat! Is that not a definition of Sick?

 

[bloodshoteyed]

Yes, a joke. Amir being sick or something is public knowledge. He retired so he could work here like a dog for basically no pay and as much grief as he cares to eat! Is that not a definition of Sick?

i thoght the only semi-known info was the carribean retreat parties you guys had with the "sponsors"....

 

[Robbo99999]

i just hope you guys didn't put him on:

but on a more serious note, i hope it was meant as a joke and not that he's ill or something?

Did that contain amphetamine?? Serious question though!

 

[Dazerdoreal]

Did that contain amphetamine?? Serious question though!

Yes.

By the way this photo is, of course, not real but a montage. Zotter is a luxury chocolate brand from austria (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zotter_Schokolade). It was funded way after the war and, of course, has nothing to do with that "Panzerschokolade" thing.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Listen before you measure made sense to me on the face of it as I have experienced myself it is very easy to hear things you expect to hear

Is it not the same at the end? before or after, as listen, even for some one as educated as Amir, remains subjective.
Only the measurements are important, even if for speakers or IEM/Headphones, they are less revealing than for electronic.
I see 2 main advantages for measuring first.

1. Knowing where specific issues or advantages will be, when shown by measurements, allows to better concentrate on what matters, so help the reviewer to be attentive and relevant on what matters faster. Even though all measurements are not equally reveling in what we hear, we know enough about some measurement result, not to waste time if the result is bad.
2. The objective measurements are what matters, personal opinion on how subjectively any gear "sound" can be pleasant but is totally unnecessary, so doing what matters first seems to be a better approach.

 

[asrUser]

How are they uncomfortable @amirm ? Are your ears so big? As for me those Sivga sound too boomy without EQ and with AutoEQ they become more clear, but at the same time not that exciting. I need to try your EQ.
Unfortunately they lack swivel and at the same time the pressure is too low. I wonder if you can bend the headband inwards? Is it made of metal? Only the successor got swivel in all directions.

 

[asrUser]

Did that contain amphetamine?? Serious question though!

You probably get arms as strong as a PANZERFAUST.

 

[sealman]

Great looks though.

Small cups (and room for the ears in pads) has been very common lately.
It seems headphones these days are designed for kids with small ears.

As someone that has larger than average sized ears and also wears glasses cup size has always been my achilles heel when buying headphones. Right next to that is clamping force and how much pressure is applied to the temples and temple tips.
I always thought it would be awesome for some sort of standard measurement that would be listed in the headphone specs regarding cup size.

My family has really appreciated it though as they have received a steady supply over the years.

 

[Robbo99999]

As someone that has larger than average sized ears and also wears glasses cup size has always been my achilles heel when buying headphones. Right next to that is clamping force and how much pressure is applied to the temples and temple tips.
I always thought it would be awesome for some sort of standard measurement that would be listed in the headphone specs regarding cup size.

My family has really appreciated it though as they have received a steady supply over the years.

You could do with a headphone that doesn't change much with seal, apparently the HD560s doesn't change it's bass much with seal breaches (according to solderdude at his diyaudioheaven website). So they might be worth a look. Clamp force on those is higher than some headphones though, but I find them fine, but I'm not a glasses wearer. The oval shaped inside area is also quite large, so out of my headphones is the one that touches my ears the least (not at all). I have average sized ears I guess, but maybe they're getting bigger as I'm getting on! Also, solderdudes diyaudioheaven website lists the interior cup dimensions/sizes, which would be useful for you to choose a headphone, especially if you measure your own ears I guess!

 

[solderdude]

I always thought it would be awesome for some sort of standard measurement that would be listed in the headphone specs regarding cup size.

I do this in all my reviews (except the earliest ones) but seem to be one of the few that report this important aspect as well as clamping force in some of them.

 

[Maiky76]

This is a review, listening tests, equalization and measurements of the SIVGA SV021 headphone. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $149.
View attachment 272916
I find the SV021 not only attractive to look at, but also touch given its luxurious fit and finish. Hard to imagine it is such a low cost headphone! Alas, the cups are a bit small for me and so not very comfortable.

Let's put the SV021 on the GRAS measurement stand and see how it performs.

SIVGA SV021 Measurements
Let's start with our usual frequency response measurement:
View attachment 272918
I usually align the response at 425 Hz. Here, that is strangely the lowest output level with both bass and treble shooting way up. I tried to get the bass to match in both channels but could not. Maybe the pads are deformed differently or the driver response is different. Relative response shows a lot of variation which may be hard to accurately EQ:
View attachment 272919

Overall distortion is rather low but a couple of resonances stick way out:
View attachment 272920

Seeing how we need to reduce the bass energy anyway, that region will look better post equalization. Here is the absolute level of distortion:
View attachment 272921

Group delay is not revealing of much:
View attachment 272923

Impedance is flat and low:
View attachment 272924

Combined with better than average sensitivity, it should be a relative easy headphone to drive:
View attachment 272925

SIVGA SV021 Headphone Listening Tests and EQ:
I started to listen to the headphone and it sounded good! It was not until I created the filter set and performed AB that I realized that the out of box "headphone showroom sound" was flawed:
View attachment 272926

Without the filters, the sound was closed in and just not interesting. With the filters in place, the sound nicely opened up and bass tightened. I threw in a couple of very sharp filters to reduce the resonances/distortions at the frequencies I measured. Sighted, it seemed to reduce distortion and clean things up further. With all 6 filters in place, I actually sat back and started to enjoy the sound of the SV021! Spatial effects had improved fair bit and I could "feel" the notes and resolution of the music. There was little to complain about other than slight discomfort.

Lesson for people who say: "listen before you measure." If I had done that, I would have told you that it sounded fine! The truth come out in AB testing against equalized response which required measurements.

Conclusions
While I really like the fit and finish of the SV021, the out of box tuning is clearly aimed at making a good first impression with a lot of bass and to some extent, treble. Likely this is why the average review rating on Amazon is 4.5 stars. Are yourself with frequency response measurements, develop an EQ and now the headphone becomes very nice sounding. Distortion is reduced to very low levels resulting in clean and well composed sound.

Given how bad the out of box response is, I can't recommend the SIVGA Robin SV021. If you own it though, deploy some EQ and you can get very good sound out of it.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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@amirm, there is not data in the review.
I have scanned the graph to get the data, therefore the scores hereafter are only indicative but not exact.

Here are some thoughts about the EQ.

Notes about the EQ design:

• The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
• The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
• A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
• The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve (and other constrains) with a fixed complexity.
  This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
  It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be therefore more neutral.
• The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF and maybe at HF).
• The range around and above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
• I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
• With some HP/amp combo, the boosts and preamp gain (loss of Dynamic range) need to be carefully considered to avoid issues with, amongst other things, too low a Max SPL or damaging your device. You have beed warned.
• Not all units of the same product are made equal. The EQ is based on the measurements of a single unit. YMMV with regards to the very unit you are trying this EQ on.
• I sometimes use variations of the Harman curve for some reasons. See rational here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-5#post-989169
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pro-review-headphone.28244/page-6#post-992119
• NOTE: the score then calculated is not comparable to the scores derived from the default Harman target curve if not otherwise noted.

Good L/R match.

I have generated one EQ, the APO config file is attached.

Score no EQ: 35.2
Score Amirm: 79.3
Score with EQ: 79.2

Amirm's EQ has a much flatter regression slope.
It would be very interesting to have the feedback on the comparison of the two EQs.

SIVGA SV021 APO Score Full EQ Flat@HF 96000Hz
March202023-131348

Preamp: -2.1 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 35.37 Hz Gain -7.51 dB Q 0.37
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 170.09 Hz Gain -10.75 dB Q 0.70
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 497.20 Hz Gain 5.28 dB Q 1.20
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1210.24 Hz Gain -6.80 dB Q 0.83
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2684.91 Hz Gain -4.34 dB Q 5.57
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 3165.47 Hz Gain 6.30 dB Q 2.79
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 10966.93 Hz Gain -11.85 dB Q 0.83