Single full range drivers

[markus]

Maybe the full ranger is most popular among the SET (Single Ended Triode) users due to usually high sensitivity and ease of driving for these crossover-less drivers.

They do have a "crossover" but it's a mechanical one. Very visible in measurements. Once equalized "high sensitivity" isn't much of a factor anymore.

When experimenting with full-range drivers a lot can be learned about speakers and audio in general if one has an open mind. Unfortunately most audiophools don't qualify for the reasons tuga mentioned.

 

[sergeauckland]

One driver I would like to see measured (and hear) is the Goodmans Axiom 80 driver. It was a real oddball in that it didn't have a conventional suspension or surround, but had leaf springs claimed to provide true pistonic motion.

There's a review of a horn loaded version here https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/axiom80_diy_e.html
but no measurements.

Looking at the pictures, I can't see how the thing would have worked at all, it must have wobbled about horribly, pistonic motion indeed, more pissed motion.....There's also no seal between front and back of the cone as far as I can tell, just a close tolerance to the frame.

Nevertheless, it was a very expensive driver at the time, and I couldn't afford a pair when I bought my much more conventional TwinAxiom 10s.

 

[richard12511]

Has anyone seen measurements from Cube audio? They're very expensive(up to 30,000 Euro).

 

[Xombul]

Full range loudspeakers can subjectively sound extremely good (Davis MV one for instance) and it would be interesting to have them tested. However, digital correction is often a must, to get a smooth response for the high-medium register. Then, I hardly believe in the-single-driver-with-no-filter myth. The "lack" of treble is not so important (actually very few people can really ear 20 kHz..., but cats and dogs do). I also believe that, surprisingly, the main limit of a full-range loudspeaker would be a limited response in the bass register.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Has anyone seen measurements from Cube audio? They're very expensive(up to 30,000 Euro).

At those prices they'd better measure very good. I can't imagine what would make them cost that much with one driver. Looks like obvious rip-off pricing based upon a fairy tale to me.

 

[watchnerd]

There is something deeply ironic about a community that lusts over DACs with SINAD measurements beyond the range of what is audible expressing interest in archaic speaker designs with blatantly obvious design defects that have mostly rendered the concept moot in modern speaker designs.

"Hey, let me hook up my 115 dB DAC to my beamy uni-driver speaker"

 

[watchnerd]

At those prices they'd better measure very good. I can't imagine what would make them cost that much with one driver. Looks like obvious rip-off pricing based upon a fairy tale to me.

6k euro just for the F10 neo driver.

In that price bracket, if I was going to go uni-driver, I'd at least go Tannoy for the cabinetry and stuffy old money looks.

 

[watchnerd]

Has anyone seen measurements from Cube audio? They're very expensive(up to 30,000 Euro).

Their 30k model comes with 12" active sub stands.

Disqualified.

15k model has -6dB at 30 Hz (no SPL specified).

 

[watchnerd]

Full range loudspeakers can subjectively sound extremely good (Davis MV one for instance) and it would be interesting to have them tested. However, digital correction is often a must, to get a smooth response for the high-medium register. Then, I hardly believe in the-single-driver-with-no-filter myth. The "lack" of treble is not so important (actually very few people can really ear 20 kHz..., but cats and dogs do). I also believe that, surprisingly, the main limit of a full-range loudspeaker would be a limited response in the bass register.

With all those caveats, why bother?

If the biggest advantage, back in the old days, was simpler crossovers, what's the point of digitally EQing/DSPing a unidriver vs doing the same to 2- or 3-way?

 

[andreasmaaan]

Has anyone seen measurements from Cube audio? They're very expensive(up to 30,000 Euro).

They look quite good... when you set the vertical scale to 130dB!

On a more standard vertical scale of 50dB:

 

[617]

They look quite good... when you set the vertical scale to 130dB!

View attachment 65472

On a more standard vertical scale of 50dB:

View attachment 65473

I like how there is axial variation from 20-300 hz. Interesting measurements.

 

[richard12511]

I like how there is axial variation from 20-300 hz. Interesting measurements.

That is weird. What's going on below 100hz? Shouldn't those all be the same?

 

[andreasmaaan]

I like how there is axial variation from 20-300 hz. Interesting measurements.

That is weird. What's going on below 100hz? Shouldn't those all be the same?

Don't ask me why, but they are in-room measurements...

 

[Deleted member 16543]

There is something deeply ironic about a community that lusts over DACs with SINAD measurements beyond the range of what is audible expressing interest in archaic speaker designs with blatantly obvious design defects that have mostly rendered the concept moot in modern speaker designs.

"Hey, let me hook up my 115 dB DAC to my beamy uni-driver speaker"

This interest could be justified if the intended listening position is near field. I experimented with some DSP corrected DIY single driver speakers a couple years ago. They measure near perfect at the listening position and I still enjoy them very much. They replaced a pair of ported single drivers I had, which in turn had replaced more traditional 2-way active monitors when they failed for the n-th time in a couple years and I finally gave up on them.
Max SPL is low, IF considered in the traditional far field terms. But if listened to in near field conditions, as they are intended, they can produce plenty enough.

 

[DaveFred]

How about the little Vifa NE65W-04?

 

[AlexanderM]

I've never heard of a full range (20-20,000Hz) driver. Even full range multi-way speakers are rare.

Some implementations of wide-band drivers using whizzer cones and rear-loaded horns try to extend the range somewhat but never enough to cover the full audible spectrum and the result is tainted with problems.

So this one is 30-20,000Hz. Wondering if it would be good? I found it today and just wanted to mention it.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-fullrange/seas-prestige-fa22rcz-h1597-08-8-fullrange/

 

[Ericglo]

I agree that it seems the best a single driver can do is wide band.

Some of the best I have seen are the Vifa and BMR that Erin tested.
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/tectonic-elements-tebm35c10-4-miniature-bmr-driver/

Wasn't the Manger driver supposed to be wide band?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I agree that it seems the best a single driver can do is wide band.

Some of the best I have seen are the Vifa and BMR that Erin tested.
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/tectonic-elements-tebm35c10-4-miniature-bmr-driver/

Wasn't the Manger driver supposed to be wide band?

The Manger had a good bit more bass extension than any of the BMR drivers. It could make it down to around 70 Hz or a little lower. Manger contacted me perhaps 10 years ago to see whether I could come up with a 2-way design that would have some appeal to the U.S. market. The selling point was supposed to be superior phase coherence due to its full-range performance above the midbass. They had tried to penetrate here with a couple of speakers but couldn't make any headway. I forget which woofer I used (crossed very low), but if there was any audible advantage to its nearly full-range operation, it was obscured by the high frequency beaming and uneven response. The Manger used a bending wave technology similar to that of the BMR drivers, but I guess the driver element was just too large to avoid a narrow dispersion at the top end. The best I could come up with sounded pleasant but inferior to any of my conventional 2-way designs. Here's the on-axis response. I don't seem to have saved any off-axis plots.

 

[Ericglo]

Good to get feedback on the Manger. Thanks Dennis. I remember reading about it like twenty years ago or so. Never really saw anything come of it. I guess your testing showed us why.

Have you tested all the sizes of BMRs?

 

[Martin]

This was the best full-range speaker I ever heard :

Von Schweikert UniField 3

Albert Von Schweikert called it a "dynamic-driver augmented one-way system utilizing a full-range driver for ‘image lock’ supported by a subwoofer and ribbon super tweeter." The majority of the frequency range was covered by the 5" Fostex full-range driver. Crossover frequencies were 100Hz and 8kHz. It was an amazing speaker in a smallish room.

Martin