Single full range drivers

[mhardy6647]

Once EQ-ed, a single full range speaker can sound good.

Dr. Bose's company (rather famously) did that.

 

[richard12511]

We really need to get some Zu Audio speakers in here for measurements.

 

[617]

We really need to get some Zu Audio speakers in here for measurements.

Do we

 

[richard12511]

Do we

I think so. They get tons of praise from the youtube speaker review community, and they're using very unconventional full range designs.

 

[thewas]

I think so. They get tons of praise from the youtube speaker review community, and they're using very unconventional full range designs.

There exist already several measurements of various of their models which don't really look good, imho its a waste of ressources and NFS time as the result is quite predictable.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-audio-soul-supreme-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-essence-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/zucable_druid/
https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergalerie/lautsprecher_stereo/zu_audio-druid_v_10817/9
http://noaudiophile.com/Zu/

 

[richard12511]

There exist already several measurements of various of their models which don't really look good, imho its a waste of ressources and NFS time as the result is quite predictable.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-audio-soul-supreme-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-essence-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/zucable_druid/
https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergalerie/lautsprecher_stereo/zu_audio-druid_v_10817/9
http://noaudiophile.com/Zu/

Perhaps, but those measurements are much less comprehensive. The new Druid VI goes for $10k/pair. That's pretty much a cost no object design for Sean, I would be interested in seeing some of the directivity characteristics and polar maps. Probably not gonna measure well, but there's certainly a non zero chance that it will. As JP from Angels in the Outfield would say, "It could happen".

Would also be interested in the subjective tests. Most of the reviews I've read seem to say "It measures poorly, but it sounds pretty good", though very few reviewers are willing to give a truly negative review.

 

[thewas]

Perhaps, but those measurements are much less comprehensive. The new Druid VI goes for $10k/pair. That's pretty much a cost no object design for Sean, I would be interested in seeing some of the directivity characteristics and polar maps. Probably not gonna measure well, but there's certainly a non zero chance that it will. As JP from Angels in the Outfield would say, "It could happen".

You can see on my above link that the directivity of the Druid V while not as bad as other of their designs due to being a non single driver implementation and using a tweeter with a waveguide, isn't really great either, possibly also a result of their minimal crossover philosophy. The chances that MK VI will be so much better are possibly non zero but on the other hand also very low. But its not my NFS, if you can convince someone to send his and Amir to measure them, why not.

Would also be interested in the subjective tests. Most of the reviews I've read seem to say "It measures poorly, but it sounds pretty good", though very few reviewers are willing to give a truly negative review.

Well, what do you expect to hear from people who buy such expensive technically limited designs? Its the same category of buyers like other "old school minimal" implementations, they like or are convinced they like the idiosyncracies of such loudspeakers and usually claim that a neutral loudspeaker sounds "boring", but what does it bring us? This is ASR in the end, there are tons of forums and reviews outside if someone wants to read typical audiophool prose.

 

[richard12511]

You can see on my above link that the directivity of the Druid V while not as bad as other of their designs due to being a non single driver implementation and using a tweeter with a waveguide, isn't really great either, possibly also a result of their minimal crossover philosophy. The chances that MK VI will be so much better are possibly non zero but on the other hand also very low. But its not my NFS, if you can convince someone to send his and Amir to measure them, why not.


Well, what do you expect to hear from people who buy such expensive technically limited designs? Its the same category of buyers like other "old school minimal" implementations, they like or are convinced they like the idiosyncracies of such loudspeakers and usually claim that a neutral loudspeaker sounds "boring", but what does it bring us? This is ASR in the end, there are tons of forums and reviews outside if someone wants to read typical audiophool prose.

I don't have a strong interest, really. I agree that it probably won't measure well.

 

[Joseph Crowe]

It’s something I think I’ll investigate myself. Subjectively a good single driver has certain things it does way better. I would love to pinpoint what that is in terms of objective measurement, but only to apply those principles to a multi-way speaker.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Maybe we need the Bose 901's on the Klippel if we are going to waste our time on the Zu gear. Now if there wasn't a backlog sure do the measurement. We already know they make very poorly designed speakers that are a horrible value vs performance trade off.

I don't see why most ESL's wouldn't qualify as full range drivers though I don't think the OP had that in mind.

 

[thewas]

Maybe we need the Bose 901's on the Klippel if we are going to waste our time on the Zu gear

Actually I would find the directivity plots of a 901 more interesting due to its 8 rear and front 1 driver.

 

[tuga]

Once EQ-ed, a single full range speaker can sound good.
Still, there are issues, like SPL limitation and possible beaming.
I would like to see here an EQ-ed to flat full range speaker in terms of directivity & distortion.

That depends on factors like the complexity and bandwidth and dynamic range of the music or most importantly the expectations of the listener.

 

[tuga]

Perhaps, but those measurements are much less comprehensive. The new Druid VI goes for $10k/pair. That's pretty much a cost no object design for Sean, I would be interested in seeing some of the directivity characteristics and polar maps. Probably not gonna measure well, but there's certainly a non zero chance that it will. As JP from Angels in the Outfield would say, "It could happen".

Would also be interested in the subjective tests. Most of the reviews I've read seem to say "It measures poorly, but it sounds pretty good", though very few reviewers are willing to give a truly negative review.

Most reviews are not performed adequately. They're tasting sessions not objectivity-driven observations of performance.

Very few reviewers are willing to give a truly negative review because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Magazines live off advertising not subscriptions, a negative review can prevent you from accessing gear in the future, a reduction in advertising revenue or even legal action...

 

[solderdude]

Dr. Bose's company (rather famously) did that.

Actually they still do that and still sounds ... well... similar.
Most people don't regard them as good sounding. It is kind of room/position dependent and requires very powerful amps.

 

[Peas]

That depends on factors like the complexity and bandwidth and dynamic range of the music or most importantly the expectations of the listener.

I mainly agree with @daftcombo. For example, if you use widerange drivers (I don't dare to call them fullrange ...) in desktop monitors, beaming and limited SPL aren't an issue. I don't see the point in dynamics then.

Having said this, it is obvious that a Klippel NFS is somehow useless as a nearfield monitor may be jugded mainly by its on-axis response. So that one goes to @thewas_.

 

[tomtoo]

Actually they still do that and still sounds ... well... similar.
Most people don't regard them as good sounding. It is kind of room/position dependent and requires very powerful amps.

I don't think they sound good. They didnt sound good to me 35years ago compared to other speakers in there price range and i'am absolutly shure time made it not better.

 

[renaudrenaud]

I don't think they sound good. They didnt sound good to me 35years ago compared to other speakers in there price range and i'am absolutly shure time made it not better.

It seems not so bad after all:

http://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/

 

[tomtoo]

It seems not so bad after all:

http://noaudiophile.com/Bose_901/

Nice review:
".... First priority is to get a subwoofer, crossing over to a sub as high as 90Hz can really clean up the sound of the speakers, and will give even more headroom. The second priority would be to add a dome tweeter to the speaker...."

So iam shure you can have that already build in in a speaker at this price. ; )

Edit: You know at this time they where hyped in some german audio magazines. And they showed you could plug them directly to your main power connector without let them smoke. But hearing them was at least for me far from being great. To long ago to remember absolutly everything but here they where expensive and much cheaper canton i liked more. Ok you couldnt plug them into mains. ; )

 

[Ilkless]

I would say that single wideband (because that's what these drivers really are) drivers are a good option for a budget desktop/very nearfield setup. However, for such an implementation there are only a few exceptional drivers that can have decent dispersion and smooth FR across a wide band (~80Hz-16kHz) at low-moderate SPLs. The Scanspeak 10F/8414G10 (and the more expensive 8424 which has a different Qts but otherwise near-identical), the Vifa TC9/TG9, maybe the BMR used in the Philharmonic BMR, Jordan Eikona 2 (ludicrously expensive) and maybe SEAS FU10RB. I have not heard nor seen measurements for any other widebanders that impress. I tried really hard to like Mark Audio's Alpair stuff because they look like what I think a wideband driver from a progressive, engineering-forward brand would look like: sophisticated surrounds, unusual cone materials, shallow cone profile, driver ventilation etc etc. But in the end, it and other wideband darlings like Voxativ are just severely flawed drivers that have seen their flaws romanticised and given a cult of personality.

3-4" drivers seem the sweet spot for linearity, directivity and extension on both ends.
You lose a bit of the top octave, but I'd rather someone build such a design than bad small 2-ways with ratty drivers for the same price (looking at Micca and Dayton here).

 

[tuga]

mainly agree with @daftcombo. For example, if you use widerange drivers (I don't dare to call them fullrange ...) in desktop monitors, beaming and limited SPL aren't an issue. I don't see the point in dynamics then.

There will still be the intermodulation distortion and the ragged response at the top of the passband and the little bass or little treble extension (the short blanket syndrome).
Single-driver speakers have been nicknamed "girl-with-banjo" for a reason... Try reproducing orchestral music. I did.