• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Should we (I) get into speaker testing & measurement

Should we get into proper speaker measurements?

  • Yes

    Votes: 147 74.2%
  • Yes, but do it later.

    Votes: 19 9.6%
  • No. Stay with Electronics.

    Votes: 32 16.2%

  • Total voters
    198

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
I am still thinking about it. The issue continues to be the high cost. My original thought was that the membership/visitors would step in to defray some of the cost. There hasn't been much input on that. The donations I receive now is great for the current work we do but it is not going to fund this major expenditure/expansion.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
23
Likes
23
I am still thinking about it. The issue continues to be the high cost. My original thought was that the membership/visitors would step in to defray some of the cost. There hasn't been much input on that. The donations I receive now is great for the current work we do but it is not going to fund this major expenditure/expansion.
I think the high cost of good measurements is not compatible with a free forum. You could run an independent measurement lab, and charge money to measure gear. There maybe enough market demand for that, from magazines to small manufacturers, etc. That could offset the cost of running a lab.

For the forum, you could publish free "rankings", but charge a fee for detailed charts or EQ settings. The fee should be a sliding scale, like 10% of the suggested retail price of the equipment with a $30 floor per chart. I think charts like these are worth at least $30 per to me.
 

daftcombo

Major Contributor
Patreon Donor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
1,094
Likes
822
I am still thinking about it. The issue continues to be the high cost. My original thought was that the membership/visitors would step in to defray some of the cost. There hasn't been much input on that. The donations I receive now is great for the current work we do but it is not going to fund this major expenditure/expansion.
Speakers are expensive. Donating 1% or less of what one would be willing to pay for a pair but with the proof it will be a good buy is not so stupid.
 

617

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
137
Likes
119
Location
Somerville, MA
I am still thinking about it. The issue continues to be the high cost. My original thought was that the membership/visitors would step in to defray some of the cost. There hasn't been much input on that. The donations I receive now is great for the current work we do but it is not going to fund this major expenditure/expansion.
Amir I've mentioned it before, but are you really opposed to trying to measure some speakers with an automated turntable and ARTA for example (or some other package - CLIO perhaps)? Far less expensive and would produce more detailed data than available from most magazines.

I just have a hard time believing the Klippel system is the only viable approach.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
Amir I've mentioned it before, but are you really opposed to trying to measure some speakers with an automated turntable and ARTA for example (or some other package - CLIO perhaps)? Far less expensive and would produce more detailed data than available from most magazines.
I have looked at that. Automated turntables cost $5,000 or more. And you still don't get vertical coverage. One would need to build some kind of stepper arm for that but you still don't get hemispheric coverage. A mic-array would do that but we are spending a lot of money and time to build things now.

Nearfield measurements are still needed for bass and that is not as accurate as anechoic chamber or Klippel due to boundary effect.

My goal with these measurements is to be able to predict listener preference based on measurements. Once we deviate from the way the measurements were created in anechoic chamber, we can't use the predictive method. We would have to conduct our own listening tests to get confidence of the results which would be far more expensive than the gear I am looking at, to say nothing of the resources it would require.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
I’m all for speaker testing but if it’s going to be that costly that’s a lot per person, I don’t know. While you have 5000-plus members I am ballparking a wild guess that you may have 100 or 200 who frequent this forum regularly as part of their leisure reading (as I do)?
Many more people read the forum than join as members. As of this instance for example, we have 41 members here but also 210 visitors (non-members). So about five times more people read the forum than post.

peakers are where you would do the most good for people in terms of testing to help them get the best sound quality out of their systems, but I think I read the equipment would cost $100k? Not to mention the time and effort.
I may be able to get the cost down to half that but it is still huge amount of money. I am willing to match the donations 1:1 to get there but that is also a lot of money to come from you all.
 

DuxServit

Active Member
Patreon Donor
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
203
Likes
164
Maybe start with measuring bookshelf speakers. Those can be shipped more easily.

Also active/powered ones may have broader buyer market (millennials and Gen-Z).
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
Maybe start with measuring bookshelf speakers. Those can be shipped more easily.

Also active/powered ones may have broader buyer market (millennials and Gen-Z).
That's my plan.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
59
Likes
16
Hi Amir i think you should do a poll asking if and how much money are the readers of the forum willing to donate for speaker measurements. Have you thought of selling or auctioning the better units you measure? Your measurements worth the extra cost i believe.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
Hi Amir i think you should do a poll asking if and how much money are the readers of the forum willing to donate for speaker measurements. Have you thought of selling or auctioning the better units you measure? Your measurements worth the extra cost i believe.
Hi there. I was thinking about auctioning them. The few that I have sold I had to sell at discount. As you say, a product that is measured should be worth more, not less than retail. But folks seem to be better negotiators than me. :)

On donation, do you mean a public thread where people say how much they are willing to donate?
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
13
Likes
3
I voted to stick with electronics .... Concern was that
  1. you would have to accept donations or ads and it might then get hard to stay impartial.
  2. There are lot more preamps amps and dacs that are yet to be touched upon
Nevertheless, you are not me and thats why you are the one running this place and iam reading it. So i belive you should shoot for it if you think you can get it to work ...only, i dont know how to make it work. So i guess my vote is yes with caveats

1. Stay independent
2. Keep doing the electronics too ...

Thanks
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
I voted to stick with electronics .... Concern was that
  1. you would have to accept donations or ads and it might then get hard to stay impartial.
This is a key point here. We have set such a high standard of independence that it is now hurting us in funding expansion of our activities. I see other sites making such investments and even funding employees to work there based on ads and every other form of monetization they can think of.

Do we want to continue to keep the optics of independence so high at the expense of not being able to test more category of audio products?

It is our own collective decision with respect to site policies that has created a quandary for us.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
I don't know how many of you are familiar with Dave Jones and his eevblog. He uses every forum of monetization possible but stays ruthless in his reviews. He receives a $20K scope and dumps on it instantly if it doesn't do something right. Manufacturers continue to send him gear given his status in that industry. I would think we can get closer to his model than where we are now.

Sad thing is that corruption is so rampant online that it creates the fears of bias. So I understand that. And we don't need to go all the way to the other direction. But I suspect we need to move somewhat from where we are today.
 

Blumlein 88

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
6,350
Likes
5,938
Not a new quandary. The original Stereophile and TAS started independently. Eventually both accepted ads and prospered greatly. And became mouthpieces for the industry in time despite attempts not do that.

Chris at CA took ads and prospered greatly.

The influence of ads is terribly difficult to overcome. I'd suggest staying with Independence even if staying small. If ads pay for a Klipple system, it could lead to some incredible clout in the business. And getting there first is big. Your site you'll have to decide.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
20,085
Likes
23,249
Location
Seattle Area
How about selling a minority stake in ASR to fund this?
I thought about it but I don't think it is the right thing to do. My last forum venture with a partner didn't end well. Lost a friend due to disagreement on how to run a forum. Now, it led to forming ASR so the end result was fine but the trip along the way was not pleasant.
 
Top Bottom