Should we (I) get into speaker testing & measurement

[amirm]

Exactly. People have different ideas and conflict is ever present.

 

[amirm]

Per earlier suggestion, created a thread to get a "budgetary" estimate of how much membership can support this cause: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ate-for-us-to-test-speakers.8129/#post-200309

 

[Ilkless]

John Atkinson used (still uses?) a SYS2722 on long-term loan from AP in return for crediting them in every report. Would it be possible for you to secure a long-term loan for the Klippel? That might lend Klippel a lot of exposure (though AFAIK, everyone who needs to know about Klippel - ie. those who see a need for Klippel equipment and can procure it - already know about it, so there might not be that much benefit).

 

[amirm]

John Atkinson used (still uses?) a SYS2722 on long-term loan from AP in return for crediting them in every report. Would it be possible for you to secure a long-term loan for the Klippel? That might lend Klippel a lot of exposure (though AFAIK, everyone who needs to know about Klippel - ie. those who see a need for Klippel equipment and can procure it - already know about it, so there might not be that much benefit).

I am working on getting accomodation pricing. While it would be nice to get the gear for free per above, I think we can afford to pay for it to some extent as to then get good support from the company.

 

[Johnb]

How about a Kickstarter type campaign?

 

[amirm]

They take a cut from the proceeds. But seems like Gofundme no longer does. Anyone used Gofundme?

 

[StevenEleven]

They take a cut from the proceeds. But seems like Gofundme no longer does. Anyone used Gofundme?

I used it to give rather than receive, to a charitable cause preferred by someone who had passed away. The family requested donating to the charity via a gofundme page dedicated to the deceased in lieu of the traditional flowers. The family must have been notified very promptly somehow because they sent me a very nice e-mail after a day or two.

The only small downside was that I got emails from gofundme for a while asking if I wanted to contribute to causes I had no interest in. Then IIRC I got the emails to stop during one of my periodic mass unsubscribe purges.

 

[napilopez]

I would definitely still look at a crowdfunding platform, even if they take a cut from it.

I suspect there is a large audience even outside of ASR's regular readers that would like to see more objective measurements. A lot of the younger audience on places like Reddit seem to be more skeptical of high-end audio and tend to look for measurements, and I'm sure there are many others who are less vocal. You just need to pitch it right. Something like "Help me change the way speakers are reviewed."

 

[DuxServit]

Crowdfunding to buy a 5K pair of speakers to measure?

 

[Wombat]

Crowdfunding to buy a 5K pair of speakers to measure?

No. To get a $50,000 test rig.

The items for testing are on top of that, so I gather.

 

[DuxServit]

So crowdfunding for 50K to buy equipment that will produce measurements when either (a) someone sends in a 5K set of speakers or (b) another crowdfunding event draws in 5K or more to purchase a set of speakers.

Problem is still logistics in shipping heavy items.

 

[headshake]

I bet, when the time comes, if @amirm starts a thread looking for folks in Seattle he will find all the speakers people would want to see. Who wouldn't want their babies checked out? Have the owners do all the lifting.

Is there any middle path for reviewing speakers? A less expensive device that an put a spotlight on some flaw? Maybe send speakers to a lab for now that has the klippel and use that as a fundraising opportunity to pay for your own device. Do a campaign for each speaker to get tested.

 

[pozz]

I bet, when the time comes, if @amirm starts a thread looking for folks in Seattle he will find all the speakers people would want to see. Who wouldn't want their babies checked out? Have the owners do all the lifting.

Is there any middle path for reviewing speakers? A less expensive device that an put a spotlight on some flaw? Maybe send speakers to a lab for now that has the klippel and use that as a fundraising opportunity to pay for your own device. Do a campaign for each speaker to get tested.

Not a bad idea for a middle road, but the economics of that would quickly become disadvantageous compared to getting a rig.

500 donations of $100 should be possible.

 

[amirm]

I bet, when the time comes, if @amirm starts a thread looking for folks in Seattle he will find all the speakers people would want to see. Who wouldn't want their babies checked out? Have the owners do all the lifting.

That's my hope. We also have a nearby hi-fi store that loans me anything they have for review. So should be able to source some from them too.

Is there any middle path for reviewing speakers? A less expensive device that an put a spotlight on some flaw? Maybe send speakers to a lab for now that has the klippel and use that as a fundraising opportunity to pay for your own device. Do a campaign for each speaker to get tested.

The middle of the road is a very manual process. Even with semi-automation (which would raise the cost to $6K), it is slow and tedious. And results are not as good. It is going to be expensive to send things to any lad so that is not practical either.

 

[Wombat]

Not a bad idea for a middle road, but the economics of that would quickly become disadvantageous compared to getting a rig.

500 donations of $100 should be possible.

From forum or crowd-funding? I doubt the former. Crowd funders usually want something preferential in return. Food for thought.

 

[pozz]

From forum or crowd-funding? I doubt the former. Crowd funders usually want something preferential in return. Food for thought.

If you donate $500, ASR will measure, tear down and review the gear you have at home (in a more or less expedited fashion).

Something like that. Adjust dollar thresholds based on the size and price of components. Create categories for reviewing the first 1/3/5 speakers.

Usually, once there's enough momentum, more will donations come in when it becomes clear that the money isn't going towards a lost cause.

 

[napilopez]

So crowdfunding for 50K to buy equipment that will produce measurements when either (a) someone sends in a 5K set of speakers or (b) another crowdfunding event draws in 5K or more to purchase a set of speakers.

Problem is still logistics in shipping heavy items.

Amir has suggested he'd start with bookshelf speakers. And I think there are a fair number of science-based speaker companies that would be willing to send him products. Obviously, they'd be more inclined as his audience grew.

 

[headshake]

Amir has suggested he'd start with bookshelf speakers. And I think there are a fair number of science-based speaker companies that would be willing to send him products. Obviously, they'd be more inclined as his audience grew.

From forum or crowd-funding? I doubt the former. Crowd funders usually want something preferential in return. Food for thought.

The middle of the road is a very manual process. Even with semi-automation (which would raise the cost to $6K), it is slow and tedious. And results are not as good. It is going to be expensive to send things to any lad so that is not practical either.

@amirm your middle sounds like lots of work that will just get tossed.

https://www.miscospeakers.com/why-misco/test-measurement-services

These folks have a klippel and are central in the USA. The idea would be to send a few small speakers that the forum elected to test. Charge to see the results until you have your own machine. Maybe publish them as an ebook or something to manage the sales/downloads.

The first step would be to define what models and let donations drive what gets tested. Maybe any level of donation for the testing gets you the results, but coming in cold buying the results costs more.

I'm just spitballing. I have no idea what the lab charges for the test or if people will pre-pay to see a result.

BTW is was reading...

• Klippel vacuum chamber where acoustic measurements can be performed under vacuum to separate air effects from purely mechanical forces. This method is particularly useful for micro speakers, microphones, and other small transducers."

Woah. Does it pull a vacuum for every test?

 

[Sergei]

https://www.miscospeakers.com/why-misco/test-measurement-services

I'd be much more interested in what they advertise as "SoundCheck by Listen, Inc. accurately measures loudspeaker distortion data". Specifically, Non-Coherent Distortion (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/103e/5566f42342061b6b204d85d484042678bcf1.pdf). Especially measured with pink noise and real-life music.

Amir would need to build an anechoic chamber for that. To go down to 80 Hz standard compliance of free-field, a traditional chamber would need to be shaped like a cube with a side of about 6.5 m (http://www.ets-lindgren.com/products/chambers/acoustic-chambers/acoustic-test-chambers/5003/500302).

So perhaps we first need to solve a problem of building a significantly smaller, cheaper anechoic chamber? Not necessarily compliant with ISO standards, yet still useful for the speaker distortions measurements? Do we have anechoic chamber theorists on the forum?

 

[Worth Davis]

I vote for about 100 amps measured before speakers. Too many tall tales about the effect of amps “ my wife loved it!” Whereas as most speakers are accepted to be different and need measurement to compare. There is also the issue of what makes a speaker good, where amps are easier to baseline.

Also just take speakers outside and do measurement like the databass.com team...don’t need to blow 70k imo

Thanks you for the work you have done