Should HiFi be much less expensive nowadays, because of technology and obsolescence?

[BobbyTimmons]

I think that's what's really changed over the past 25 years is that today's home audio has moved from the living room to the desktop, and often involves listening via headphones rather than speakers. Hence you have a variety of compact DACs and amps to choose from at modest prices, while a very decent set of headphones can be had for about 150 USD. But if you want more of an old-school setup involving full-sized preamp, power amp, digital player and so on, those sorts of things have become specialty products, and prices often reflect it.

As for obsolescence, one way you can very quickly determine whether you are buying a product subject to rapid obsolescence is to determine to what extent a product can (or can't!) be used without apps or somehow tying the product to the manufacturer's servers.

To me, it also seems like there are less people listening to music very seriously (or "single mindedly" - to write it less objectionally) nowadays, compared to even 20 years ago. While more people might just want some kind of background noise while they browse the internet or sit on the train (hence the popularity of headphones among the youngsters - even as a millennial I think most people I know only listen on headphones).

I'm not exactly a doomer in most areas, but with the decline in music appreciation there do seem to be some objective indicators of bad health: we can look at the situation with the dying classical music industry, or the "loudness war" in popular music. Similarly, there is less attention to giving children a musical education than in the past. For example, in the 1980s, there were 30,000 pianos sold per year in the UK. Today, only 4,000 pianos are sold per year. Although digital pianos have made up part of the shortfall, there's no doubt that less families are playing the piano, and that being a music private teacher is reported as being almost an untenable profession in some areas of the country now.

It's not the end of the world, and the decline in "serious listening" was probably always inevitable - with so much more competition for our time, from the internet, to video games.

 

[Pjetrof]

YES!

 

[Frank Dernie]

Are these impressive in form and function like Phantoms, performance monitors like Genelec/Neumann, or something in between like KEF? Sorry if you've already posted what they are.

Devialet silver phantoms from the first production batch.

 

[Frank Dernie]

While i agree that the cash you need to lay out to carry a certain level of sound quality home nowadays is much lower than in the 60s-80s, i'm not convinced that the overall cost of ownership has decreased substantially.
Pretty much every single digitial piece of equipment will be outdated/incompatible/too slow/not supported/obsolete/broken within 10-15 years. Usually in less than 5. Compare that to the lifecycle of speakers, amps and turntables from the golden age. I currently have a pair of speakers made in 1975 which still sound good today. My parents system was bought in the early 90s and will last for another decade or three. Their turntable has been going for over 40 years. Assuming you need to buy a new streaming box every 7.5 years, that streamer will need to be 5 times cheaper than the turntable to break even.

Its even worse with highly integrated stuff like the KEF LSX. With old school chains, when one piece breaks or becomes obsolete, you just switch out that piece. If any part of an integrated active-dsp-wireless-bluetooth system breaks, you need to replace the entire thing which becomes expensive pretty fast.

You are confirming my feeling.
That is why I wrote that it should be cheaper but needs to be because 5 years seems to be considered a long life with anything microprocessor controlled, so will only be good value compared to my existing 25 year old (and still enjoyed several hours per day) speakers if they cost 1/5 as much.

 

[Frank Dernie]

But it is! It's just that many people are still stuck with the anachronistic idea that it takes thousands of dollars to get good sound. I am amazed at how good a $35 IEM connected to the headphone jack off my smartphone - granted, a $800 flagship - sounds...

I only listen on ear buds as a last resort on the bus.
The SQ is OK but the experience only a small step better than not having music available.
Also the small, relatively inexpensive, well performing near field monitors are useless in a normal room for classical music.
The D&D 8c ia about the least expensive which would potentially do the job but their placement requirements are incompatible with my room and they need a computer connection so OK for my office but not home, for me.

 

[Count Arthur]

I saw an article in What Hi-Fi: https://www.whathifi.com/features/10-worlds-most-expensive-turntables

I thought to myself " ... and then you drag a rock through a plastic groove".

 

[Wombat]

I saw an article in What Hi-Fi: https://www.whathifi.com/features/10-worlds-most-expensive-turntables

View attachment 66238

I thought to myself " ... and then you drag a rock through a plastic groove".

Obviously designed by a tech. nerd. Even an Engineer would be ashamed of its looks.

 

[tomtoo]

I saw an article in What Hi-Fi: https://www.whathifi.com/features/10-worlds-most-expensive-turntables

View attachment 66238

I thought to myself " ... and then you drag a rock through a plastic groove".

But looks much cooler than a sd card.

 

[Count Arthur]

But looks much cooler than a sd card.

I completely agree, as an object, or even a piece of furniture, a box of electronic with no moving parts just isn't as interesting as a turntable with a spinny thing and arm that moves about, no matter how fancy you make the box.

 

[Colonel7]

You are confirming my feeling.
That is why I wrote that it should be cheaper but needs to be because 5 years seems to be considered a long life with anything microprocessor controlled, so will only be good value compared to my existing 25 year old (and still enjoyed several hours per day) speakers if they cost 1/5 as much.

I'm coming to the same conclusion. I do like streaming and I'm viewing that side as the external commodity because after all it's just bits. If the DAC in whatever product isn't good enough then I'll spend another $100 and hide the Modi or Topping behind something else. Integrated DSP and actives are great sounding but will age out quickly and too many folks at ASR who have them report they need to send them back for repair. In a few years good-enough (and easy enough) DSP will cost little and be an add-on like DACs.

Audio is just mirroring the wider world with microproccesors and connectivity. Do dish and clothes washers and refrigerators need them? No, it's just another failure mode.

 

[Pluto]

it also seems like there are fewer people listening to music very seriously (or "single mindedly" - to write it less objectionably) nowadays

I think you have hit an important nail on the head there. People's attention spans appear to be rapidly falling over a cliff edge.

 

[Asylum Seeker]

I'm coming to the same conclusion. I do like streaming and I'm viewing that side as the external commodity because after all it's just bits. If the DAC in whatever product isn't good enough then I'll spend another $100 and hide the Modi or Topping behind something else. Integrated DSP and actives are great sounding but will age out quickly and too many folks at ASR who have them report they need to send them back for repair. In a few years good-enough (and easy enough) DSP will cost little and be an add-on like DACs.

Audio is just mirroring the wider world with microproccesors and connectivity. Do dish and clothes washers and refrigerators need them? No, it's just another failure mode.

What? Come on, you Luddite! The Bluetooth tooth-brush is a must-have.

 

[Robin L]

I saw an article in What Hi-Fi: https://www.whathifi.com/features/10-worlds-most-expensive-turntables

View attachment 66238

I thought to myself " ... and then you drag a rock through a plastic groove".

. . . on the surface of a not so flat surface featuring an imperfectly centered spiral that will have that rock passing by microscopic ripples that get smaller as the rock finds its way to the center of the spinning disc.

 

[Robin L]

But looks much cooler than a sd card.

Maybe, but I find the concept of having so much music on something so tiny cosmic, like Borges' Library of Babel.

 

[F1308]

HiFi is so cheap nowadays you may even have not notice.

Without realising it, every smartphone has a SOTA chip many times more powerful than that on-board Apollo 11, and adding a pair of Bluetooth earbuds will surely give you great sound quality for, say, 200$+35$. You can also make it 1250$+250$, but that will be your wish, not a necessity.

The only big problem of this outstanding HiFi combo is just the fitting of the earbuds, otherwise low frequencies are seriously affected.

 

[Frank Dernie]

HiFi is so cheap nowadays you may even have not notice.

Without realising it, every smartphone has a SOTA chip many times more powerful than that on-board Apollo 11, and adding a pair of Bluetooth earbuds will surely give you great sound quality for, say, 200$+35$. You can also make it 1250$+250$, but that will be your wish, not a necessity.

The only big problem of this outstanding HiFi combo is just the fitting of the earbuds, otherwise low frequencies are seriously affected.

Most music lovers listen on speakers. Headphones and ear buds are too uncomfortable and inconvenient for serious listening. I only use them on a bus or 'plane not a good environment for the admittedly fairly good SQ to show.
Good speakers, particularly full range and loud enough for a big room, are expensive.

 

[Robin L]

Most music lovers listen on speakers. Headphones and ear buds are too uncomfortable and inconvenient for serious listening. I only use them on a bus or 'plane not a good environment for the admittedly fairly good SQ to show.
Good speakers, particularly full range and loud enough for a big room, are expensive.

Good speakers, bought new, are expensive. But the used market is glutted.

 

[F1308]

Most music lovers listen on speakers. Headphones and ear buds are too uncomfortable and inconvenient for serious listening. I only use them on a bus or 'plane not a good environment for the admittedly fairly good SQ to show.
Good speakers, particularly full range and loud enough for a big room, are expensive.

Oh, yes, I know.
But the quality you get in places where those out of the world speakers are sadly not available is really terrific, and turns out to be the only way to have HiFi for those of us who are often away from home [ your Captain speaking...].
Even those bad environments will be turned into a non existing ones thanks to the noise cancelling service, be it active or passive...Music and nearly only music, HiFi every time you wish, everywhere.

 

[tomtoo]

Maybe, but I find the concept of having so much music on something so tiny cosmic, like Borges' Library of Babel.

Of course, against a microprozessor and a sd card this “mechanical wonders" are stone age. But they are fascinating couse you can see the working. It's art, for the eyes.

 

[raistlin65]

To me, it also seems like there are less people listening to music very seriously (or "single mindedly" - to write it less objectionally) nowadays, compared to even 20 years ago. While more people might just want some kind of background noise while they browse the internet or sit on the train (hence the popularity of headphones among the youngsters - even as a millennial I think most people I know only listen on headphones).

While I agree that headphones have become the most popular way of listening to music, I don't think there's evidence to support young music listeners were more serious listeners 20 or more years ago. While today's listeners may have music on more often because of headphones, I'd be surprised if, for example, gen X spent more hours on average listening more seriously.