• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Should HiFi be much less expensive nowadays, because of technology and obsolescence?

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,779
Location
Oxfordshire
I was just reflecting on my HiFi and some of the modern exasperations and it occurred to me that HiFi kit could and should be much less relatively expensive than it has ever been and, indeed, needs to be.
The first thought was that compared to when I was working in the business all the measuring equipment is almost negligibly cheap compared to then (1970s) and has spectacularly more power.
Processing and microprocessors also but what really got me thinking was a combination between a thread here about CDs v file based music, and on another yet more discussion about firmware updates breaking existing features and this sort of thing.
The kit I have enjoyed for the last 25 years was fairly expensive but it has lasted 25 years (and hasn't failed yet) without need of updates and I am still enjoying it every day.
I have some DSP speakers which sound great but I hardly ever use.
I have a drone which I don't use any more because almost every time I wanted to there was an update rigmarole which left me losing the will to live, updating but missing what I wanted to use it for.
I am fairly sure I could get better sound from several speakers nowadays, though maybe not much in my listening conditions far field, but the frustration would, if my past experience be anything to go by, very much greater than zero and the obsolescence would mean it is neither likely to last or be serviceable for as long. So it would need to be cheap because it would need to be changed more often, and it could be because most of the electronics are much less expensive than they used to be.

Would I really notice how much better it was by enjoying my music more? Probably not.

Am I just too old?
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,499
Likes
5,417
Location
UK
I think in many ways the most interesting thing going on now is the end user being able to do more at home testing than most magazines did from the 80s onwards. One of the worst things about hifi as a hobby is the idea that whatever you have might not be great, it insidious, but knowledge can dispel so much of that.
 

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,383
Likes
24,749
Location
Alfred, NY
I would argue that hifi is cheaper and better than ever. As an example, if I have an iPhone or pad plus a pair of Vanatoo T1E, I have a system for under $1000 that is better than 95% of systems available 20 years ago at the same dollar level (even without correction for inflation). Or a Scarlett 2i2 and a pair of Kalis. Or....
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
It should be but I think actual' hi-fi' in the traditional sense is so much less popular these days the companies that could benefit from economy of scale manufacturing wise are not really interested.

This leaves small companies that don't have the ability to give real value for money or indeed invest in serious R&D .

For me hi-fi these days 'should ' be more about software and digital integration technology rather than electronics , those problems are solved .

Why is JBL charging $20000 for a surround processor with some fancy software?

I don't understand why that kind of thing has to cost more than ..$5000 .
 

sergeauckland

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
3,440
Likes
9,100
Location
Suffolk UK
I think real HiFi, (i.e. stuff that is accurate and therefore transparent) is indeed much cheaper both relatively and in some cases absolutely than equipment of HiFi's Golden Era, which I see as being the late 1950s through to the mid 1980s. Before then, we had the post wartime austerity, and after that it all got a bit silly, I think, once quality was no longer an issue.

Now, if a product is high priced, it's because the manufacturer has decided to make it so, not because performance dictates. Both 'boutique' manufacturers and 'lifestyle' manufacturers are chasing an increasingly smaller market geographically of increasingly wealthy consumers who may not have any technical knowledge but respond to brand awareness / identity. It's not just HiFi that's gone that way, witness the utterly stupid prices paid for designer trainers or T shirts!!

There are lots of sensibly priced items these days, much if not all of it manufactured in China although branded with familiar brands, many of not most non-Chinese. Behringer is a good example in the home-studio, home PA, live sound market, which moves into HiFi with their power amps and small active monitors. All it needs is sufficient volume, and efficient manufacturing, something that the high-priced brigade don't understand or don't want to get involved with. Do Chord or Linn products really need to be housed in a block of machined metal?

As to longevity, certainly today's products are a lot more reliable than those of the past, but then they need to be as repair is hardly possible. I've already had a rant against products that are rendered obsolete by a software update so won't go there again, but like Frank, I get frustrated by equipment that every time one goes to use it, one can't until it's done its upgrade. Why can't they get it right first time, why do they need so many upgrades? One of the mysteries of modern life.

S.
 
OP
Frank Dernie

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,779
Location
Oxfordshire
I would argue that hifi is cheaper and better than ever. As an example, if I have an iPhone or pad plus a pair of Vanatoo T1E, I have a system for under $1000 that is better than 95% of systems available 20 years ago at the same dollar level (even without correction for inflation). Or a Scarlett 2i2 and a pair of Kalis. Or....
That is what I expect and is as it should be.
Mind you an iPhone might be OK but little speakers are pretty useless for Mahler's 5th symphony at concert level at 15', the nearest seat for me.
 

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,383
Likes
24,749
Location
Alfred, NY
That is what I expect and is as it should be.
Mind you an iPhone might be OK but little speakers are pretty useless for Mahler's 5th symphony at concert level at 15', the nearest seat for me.
An extra $500 gets you a nice pair of subwoofers.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,064
Likes
14,694
I was reading another recent thread on here that caused me to ponder same . Im in my 40s but a lot of the contributors were reminiscing on 60s/70s classics (or not so classics having seen the underside of some old amps) .

I have a sneaky feeling if you gave someone with fresh ears a SoA system now compared to decades ago and blind tested (I suppose Im saying SoA digital, with room eq etc done compared a vintage system but with digital source ) they might consistently prefer the new. I suspect do the same test on the existing owner of the vintage gear who has had it 25 years plus, they might prefer it.

I guess some members have done such tests?
 

Colonel7

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
616
Likes
872
Location
Maryland, USA
I would argue that hifi is cheaper and better than ever. As an example, if I have an iPhone or pad plus a pair of Vanatoo T1E, I have a system for under $1000 that is better than 95% of systems available 20 years ago at the same dollar level (even without correction for inflation). Or a Scarlett 2i2 and a pair of Kalis. Or....
Exactly. I think only the hifi stratospheric part (to the 90% of us) remains stubbornly high priced. I'd argue that Audio quality is much cheaper. I just looked at an inflation calculator and the $600 system I put together in 1988 during college would provide more than $1300 USD today. I just spent $600 on a kickaround system a couple months back and the amp is double the power and the speakers are even better performing than the amp compared to the 80s. Nevermind I dont need the cd player that took up the big chunk back then. And this is a secondary system while I figure out what my main system will be.
 

617

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
2,403
Likes
5,296
Location
Somerville, MA
Ultra high performance is pretty attainable now. The phone that I bought for non-audio reasons is essentially a perfect source unit (LG G7) and you could plug it into a pair of lsr305 with the matching subwoofer for what, 500 dollars? Or a pair of Kali In-8 for 800? I mean these are seriously high performance speakers, with high output and great room adjustment options. How much would you have to spend in 1990 or 1980 to get that kind of performance? A very high end CD player to start with, but what sort of speakers from that era even come close?

I mean the first Sony CD player was like 2 grand in today's money, and I'm pretty sure you couldn't use it to get laid or order a pizza either.
 
OP
Frank Dernie

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,779
Location
Oxfordshire
I have a sneaky feeling if you gave someone with fresh ears a SoA system now compared to decades ago and blind tested (I suppose Im saying SoA digital, with room eq etc done compared a vintage system but with digital source ) they might consistently prefer the new. I suspect do the same test on the existing owner of the vintage gear who has had it 25 years plus, they might prefer it.
I have in effect!
I have an splendid sounding (IMO) pair of modern DSP speakers.
They sound very close to as good as the 25 year old system which cost about 10x as much. Not better though and a relative pita for me to use, in comparison.
I use them for streaming from Qobuz.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,064
Likes
14,694
I have in effect!
I have an splendid sounding (IMO) pair of modern DSP speakers.
They sound very close to as good as the 25 year old system which cost about 10x as much. Not better though and a relative pita for me to use, in comparison.
I use them for streaming from Qobuz.
Nice . Has a guest ever compared and dare say they prefer the new? Or is that a black mark? :eek:
 
OP
Frank Dernie

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,779
Location
Oxfordshire
Nice . Has a guest ever compared and dare say they prefer the new? Or is that a black mark? :eek:
The general consensus of guests has been to be surprised how close the DSP one gets for the money.
At least two, maybe more, have bought some for themselves since they wouldn't dream of having big speakers which weigh 130kg.
 

Colonel7

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
616
Likes
872
Location
Maryland, USA
I have in effect!
I have an splendid sounding (IMO) pair of modern DSP speakers.
They sound very close to as good as the 25 year old system which cost about 10x as much. Not better though and a relative pita for me to use, in comparison.
I use them for streaming from Qobuz.
Great performing amps have been made for almost 50 years now. But power and power handling sure cost a lot back then. Now it's attainable for anyone willing to spend $1k
 
OP
Frank Dernie

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,779
Location
Oxfordshire
The general consensus of guests has been to be surprised how close the DSP one gets for the money.
At least two, maybe more, have bought some for themselves since they wouldn't dream of having big speakers which weigh 130kg.
Edit, some people have preferred them to my full range horns and one notable other refuses to listen to anything but the horns when he comes.
They certainly don't look as nice as the horns - the only bit of hifi I ever bought which my wife likes the look of.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,064
Likes
14,694
Edit, some people have preferred them to my full range horns and one notable other refuses to listen to anything but the horns when he comes.
They certainly don't look as nice as the horns - the only bit of hifi I ever bought which my wife likes the look of.
There's probably an innuendo lurking in there somewhere :D
 

sergeauckland

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
3,440
Likes
9,100
Location
Suffolk UK
Great performing amps have been made for almost 50 years now. But power and power handling sure cost a lot back then. Now it's attainable for anyone willing to spend $1k
I'd even argue it's available for $150, let alone $1000. What's the price of the Behringer A800? It's £155 here with our 20% sales tax.

As much power any anyone sane is ever likely to need.

S.
 
Top Bottom