Sennheiser HD560s Owner's Thread.

[solderdude]

There is no reason to change the stock cable other than:

• it is broken
• you need a different length
• you don't like the color
• you don't like the feel
• you find it too stiff/springy/tangling
• you need a different plug and don't want to use adapters
• you want a 4-wire cable instead of 3-wire (Sennheiser cables are all 4-wire)

You should not replace a cable thinking the sound actually changes.
Caveat 1.... when you expect the sound to change between cables it will, just not for any technical reasons,
Caveat 2 .... when the headphone is low impedance (below 20ohm) and the cable is 3-wire there may be audible differences. For higher impedance headphones (above 80 ohm) this does not matter any more.

Note: the HD560S cable is 4-wire (as are the ones for all dual-entry headphones.

 

[Deckard01]

There is no reason to change the stock cable other than:

• it is broken
• you need a different length
• you don't like the color
• you don't like the feel
• you find it too stiff/springy/tangling
• you need a different plug and don't want to use adapters
• you want a 4-wire cable instead of 3-wire (Sennheiser cables are all 4-wire)

You should not replace a cable thinking the sound actually changes.
Caveat 1.... when you expect the sound to change between cables it will, just not for any technical reasons,
Caveat 2 .... when the headphone is low impedance (below 20ohm) and the cable is 3-wire there may be audible differences. For higher impedance headphones (above 80 ohm) this does not matter any more.

Note: the HD560S cable is 4-wire (as are the ones for all dual-entry headphones.

Thank you for the info. I was reading about all these cables and I thought that as many use them, that there will be a good up level of the sound as many describe.

So I do ill not move on and change it. I would only change it because i need something with less length.

Is there any option about a shorter cable?

Thank you

 

[Asterism]

Is the treble unfixable?

My Sennheiser Game One recently broke after 6 years of heavy use, So I recently bought the HD 560s and got the new revision. I like it overall but the treble was higher than I expected making it fatiguing to listen to, I tried to EQ but nothing seemed to work. I've tried oratory presets, I've tried to leave only the high-frequency negative gains, I've tried to EQ it by hand based on FR graphs, I've tried to EQ it to match the HD650 frequency response and then only kept the dip in the upper mids and treble which is what I'm currently using and even after all that it is still a little fatiguing, Why is this happening? is it because I have it plugged into my onboard audio? maybe it's just my unit, I don't know what to do, honestly, I'm thinking about returning them but then I wouldn't know what to get around the same price I got them for

 

[solderdude]

There is a substantial brightness difference between the 2 models and you may want to lower 9kHz by 10dB or so.

Try to base your EQ on the difference you see in the plot above and it might sound more familiar to you.
5dB more upper mids (between 1k and 6kHz) is very audible. The 5dB difference at 9kHz is bound to be perceived as more sharpness.

Do note that the comparison above is made using the older HD560S (with the 3m cable with 6.3mm plug).
The newer HD560S is a few dB less bright by itself than the one shown above.
Its main fault (to get it to sound good to me) requires a bell filter around 5kHz. That peak is not very visible on Rtings measurements because they use a different test fixture with different pinna/ear canal from 45CA

 

[Asterism]

Yep every EQ I tried or made included the filter for the peak between 4.5kHz and 5kHz , I'll try to lower 9kHz even more but I've been trying to not stray to far away from the original FR. This is the latest EQ I landed at using the HD650 as target which is the farthest from the original FR I've tried so far, I would appreciate any advice your have to improve it:

I can't believe the Game Ones are that much darker compared to even the HD650 and HD6XX, am I just very sensitive to treble? are bright headphones something you just need to get used to? can listening fatigue lead to hearing damage?

 

[Dreamic]

There is a substantial brightness difference between the 2 models and you may want to lower 9kHz by 10dB or so.

View attachment 333242
Try to base your EQ on the difference you see in the plot above and it might sound more familiar to you.
5dB more upper mids (between 1k and 6kHz) is very audible. The 5dB difference at 9kHz is bound to be perceived as more sharpness.

Do note that the comparison above is made using the older HD560S (with the 3m cable with 6.3mm plug).
The newer HD560S is a few dB less bright by itself than the one shown above.
Its main fault (to get it to sound good to me) requires a bell filter around 5kHz. That peak is not very visible on Rtings measurements because they use a different test fixture with different pinna/ear canal from 45CA

I was talking with Oratory a couple days ago about your and @Robbo99999 findings (the latter of which he said he spoke to quite a bit) and is still convinced there's no revision and it's just unit variation, also shared this with me:

So as for any EQ suggestions, he still recommends his current one. This was 9 different units btw. So somebody is giving detrimental EQ advice, as the current version with the shorter cable either trends darker on average than the previous one with the longer cable, or doesn't.

Also have just this snippet of exact measurements:

 

[solderdude]

Well I actually spoke with the product manager about this aspect.
As this was confidential I won't publish what he said but my conclusions were not imaginary is all I have to say about this.

You cannot judge product variances on a HATS by the way. They are simply not suited for that purpose. You can safely dismiss everything above several kHz .... for THAT particular purpose.

 

[Dreamic]

Well I actually spoke with the product manager about this aspect.
As this was confidential I won't publish what he said but my conclusions were not imaginary is all I have to say about this.

You cannot judge product variances on a HATS by the way. They are simply not suited for that purpose. You can safely dismiss everything above several kHz .... for THAT particular purpose.

Appreciate this. Oratory should update his EQ presets with a new / short cable version, which isn't something that out of the ordinary for his database. Until then I guess people will be unfortunately misled with subpar EQ recommendation there. And including people using Jaako AutoEQ or whatever etc as it uses old Oratory measurement... Sigh
@oratory1990

Also that last particular snippet was just me wondering about other units exhibiting that "M" shaped behavior there, so he provided that.
Good to know Senn actually did make improvents

 

[solderdude]

Well there certainly is unit to unit variance (there is with all headphones) so one will never know if applied EQ is correct according to a specific measurement and it also may not be correct on one's head.
So chances are any EQ may not be as nearly as accurate for any headphone as most people think it is.

 

[usern]

I can't believe the Game Ones are that much darker compared to even the HD650 and HD6XX, am I just very sensitive to treble? are bright headphones something you just need to get used to?

No, don't have to get used to.
From Game One and 560S difference solderdude posted there is a lot less upper mids and highs on Game One and the EQ you posted does not compensate it. I think you turn up the volume to hear bass and without compensating mids, treble it will sound harsh if dark profile is what you are used to.
I like dark sound and add +10dB shelf to low frequencies, additional +3dB peak at 60 Hz and preamp everything else down same amount

Yep every EQ I tried or made included the filter for the peak between 4.5kHz and 5kHz , I'll try to lower 9kHz even more but I've been trying to not stray to far away from the original FR.

Why not stray away from original FR?

 

[Asterism]

No, don't have to get used to.
From Game One and 560S difference solderdude posted there is a lot less upper mids and highs on Game One and the EQ you posted does not compensate it. I think you turn up the volume to hear bass and without compensating mids, treble it will sound harsh if dark profile is what you are used to.
I like dark sound and add +10dB shelf to low frequencies, additional +3dB peak at 60 Hz and preamp everything else down same amount

I don't think I turn up the volume to hear bass because the Game Ones with their lack of bass make the HD560s sound bassy, if anything I'm maybe turning it up to hear the mids.
The problem is not that much with music, most music sounds fine just a bit fatiguing only certain air instruments sound piercing, the biggest issue is with voices for example when I have a stream or YouTube video in the background while I work, most female voices sound a little piercing and some male voices also have some piercing frequencies with certain words, and no amount of EQ seems to fix it, the same goes for wind instruments they just keep sounding piercing, also I wonder if this has something to do with earpad compression as the top of my earpads is compressing super fast compared to the bottom, not sure if this is something that happens only with the new revision.

Why not stray away from original FR?

Because for the most part, I like the way the HD560s sound so I just wanted to make them less fatiguing not to completely change the way they sound or to make them sound exactly like my old Game Ones, The second reason is that I am no audio engineer and I don't have anything to measure them with so I don't want to ruin the sound too much, the third reason is that if I have to change that much off the original FR maybe I'm just better off looking for different headphones.

 

[solderdude]

I can't believe the Game Ones are that much darker compared to even the HD650 and HD6XX,

They aren't.

As can be seen the game one and HD650 are quite similar. The HD650 is just a little more forward in the upper midrange but has more 'details' as there is about 5dB more treble which will certainly be beneficial when gaming.

 

[Asterism]

As can be seen the game one and HD650 are quite similar. The HD650 is just a little more forward in the upper midrange but has more 'details' as there is about 5dB more treble which will certainly be beneficial when gaming.

It makes sense I always struggled a bit to hear footsteps with the Game One.

I tried to make an EQ using the Game One FR as the target instead, then I removed the reduction of the bass and any boost but still no good, not sure what it's going on

 

[Robbo99999]

I was talking with Oratory a couple days ago about your and @Robbo99999 findings (the latter of which he said he spoke to quite a bit) and is still convinced there's no revision and it's just unit variation, also shared this with me:
View attachment 333284
So as for any EQ suggestions, he still recommends his current one. This was 9 different units btw. So somebody is giving detrimental EQ advice, as the current version with the shorter cable either trends darker on average than the previous one with the longer cable, or doesn't.

Also have just this snippet of exact measurements:
View attachment 333285

I discussed this with Oratory in PM on his reddit. I wanted to show him what me & solderdude found out re the new revision from the measurements we have both done. We discussed it in some depth, I didn't convince him and he didn't convince me. He's gonna keep displaying them as one headphone rather than acknowledging a new revision, and my interpretation (along with some discussions with solderdude) is that the new revision is different. I'm happy for Oratory to choose how he does his measurements & EQ's, that's totally his decision, perhaps if he measures a bunch more of the new revision he might change his mind, but I'd imagine he would have to measure quite a few units of the new revision to change his mind.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yep every EQ I tried or made included the filter for the peak between 4.5kHz and 5kHz , I'll try to lower 9kHz even more but I've been trying to not stray to far away from the original FR. This is the latest EQ I landed at using the HD650 as target which is the farthest from the original FR I've tried so far, I would appreciate any advice your have to improve it:View attachment 333248View attachment 333247
I can't believe the Game Ones are that much darker compared to even the HD650 and HD6XX, am I just very sensitive to treble? are bright headphones something you just need to get used to? can listening fatigue lead to hearing damage?

Based on me looking at the difference solderdude showed between your previous headphone and the HD560s then I would remove all your current EQ's and just try the following:

High Shelf Filter at 1000Hz, -2dB, Q0.71

That's based on you having the new version as otherwise I would have suggested more of a decrease than the 2dB. If that still doesn't sound right maybe just add that to your current EQ, but start off by trying just the High Shelf Filter first.

 

[half_dog]

is it because I have it plugged into my onboard audio?

I know and agree that DACs are "problem solved" but sadly not for motherboards. Most of them have terrible amplification implementations. Low power (low voltage as well) output, high impedance and sometimes some built in high pass filters that's cause bass roll off. Maybe it can be the culprint. Do you have access to any other player source? An iPod or smarthphone laying around... Try the HD560s on something else. A friend had a similiar problem with a HD560s and the problem was his motherboard output.

 

[Dreamic]

I discussed this with Oratory ... I didn't convince him ... He's gonna keep displaying them as one headphone rather than acknowledging a new revision

Well that's silly when there's now this:

Well I actually spoke with the product manager about this aspect.
As this was confidential I won't publish what he said but my conclusions were not imaginary is all I have to say about this.

So... yea. Surely it doesn't need to be laid out / confirmed any clearer than that. Solders conclusions were not unit variation. So unless we're to think the product manager is also wrong...

Anyways nothing more for me to really say / do about this, I don't have a fancy GRAS rig or the ability to make anyone who does measure the 1.8m cable version. Maybe I'll try bugging Oratory again sometime if he already has 1.8m measurements sounds like

 

[Asterism]

I know and agree that DACs are "problem solved" but sadly not for motherboards. Most of them have terrible amplification implementations. Low power (low voltage as well) output, high impedance and sometimes some built in high pass filters that's cause bass roll off. Maybe it can be the culprint. Do you have access to any other player source? An iPod or smarthphone laying around... Try the HD560s on something else. A friend had a similiar problem with a HD560s and the problem was his motherboard output.

Maybe you are onto something, the Game Ones are 50Ω and the HD560s are 120Ω that's a pretty significant difference, I believe the HD560s also have a higher sensitivity which is why volume is not a problem, infact I have the Windows volume at around the same I level as the Game Ones(14%-16%) this is why I figured that onboard audio would be fine for a bit while I can afford to buy a decent DAC/AMP, but you are right maybe because of the high impedance there is some weird amplification going on with my old motherboard causing this issue.

Sadly my current phone doesn't have a 3.5mm output and my old iPhone 6s won't turn on anymore so I can't test it right now, but tomorrow I'm going to borrow a mac book and a Apple 3.5mm to lightning dongle from my family and give it a test, hopefully this is the problem and It just gets fixed when I get a DAC/AMP.

 

[Asterism]

Based on me looking at the difference solderdude showed between your previous headphone and the HD560s then I would remove all your current EQ's and just try the following:

High Shelf Filter at 1000Hz, -2dB, Q0.71

That's based on you having the new version as otherwise I would have suggested more of a decrease than the 2dB. If that still doesn't sound right maybe just add that to your current EQ, but start off by trying just the High Shelf Filter first.

I gave it a shot and endep up with something that looks like this:

It definitely sounds darker and veiled but somehow certain frequencies are still harsh and piercing.

 

[Robbo99999]

I gave it a shot and endep up with something that looks like this:
View attachment 333558View attachment 333559
It definitely sounds darker and veiled but somehow certain frequencies are still harsh and piercing.

Well try your HD560s using another source (the Macbook you mentioned) as a way to rule out somekind of motherboard sound issues. As to EQ, you didn't put in the High Shelf filter I mentioned. I'd try just putting in the High Shelf Filter I listed, and if that doesn't fix it then try using the High Shelf Filter still, but instead add your previous EQ on top of that High Shelf filter, so your previous EQ from here:

Sennheiser HD560s Owner's Thread.

There is no reason to change the stock cable other than: it is broken you need a different length you don't like the color you don't like the feel you find it too stiff/springy/tangling you need a different plug and don't want to use adapters you want a 4-wire cable instead of 3-wire...

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