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Sennheiser HD560s Owner's Thread.

usern

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Release (old) 560S
Code:
Preamp: -12.5 dB
Filter: ON LS Fc 130 Hz Gain 10 dB
Filter: ON PK Fc 150 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 0.8
Filter: ON PK Fc 1320 Hz Gain -2.8 dB Q 1.6
Filter: ON PK Fc 1850 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 1.3
Filter: ON PK Fc 3230 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 4450 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 5.713
Filter: ON PK Fc 5490 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 3.1685
Filter: ON PK Fc 7000 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 1.2
Filter: ON PK Fc 60 Hz Gain 3.5 dB Q 1.3
SOmqUIu.png
I've made it so I could listen high SPL low frequencies for short while. If low end is not boosted, the mids + highs eat your ears.
 

Another_Moon

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I collected graphs with compensation (for the old version, it’s probably better not to think about the differences in the new one for now), they all seem to be from different stands, with different targets, everyone seems to see a rise of 2-3 dB in the range of ~900 Hz at 2 kHz (for Rtings and Realphones it goes up to 3 kHz), everyone sees a 4-6 kHz rise (except that Rtings only have 4.5 kHz), but they measure differently from 4 to 6 dB, and then it seems like there’s confusion, but many have a peak of 8-9 kHz.
 

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usern

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Try sharp negative notch at 7 kHz gain -8.5 Q 10. Another sharp notch I've tried is 8350 Hz Q 10 -8 dB. May be my own hearing. With both filters on some harsh tracks have less pinginess, but I've disabled them for regular listening.
 

Robbo99999

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I already wrote in the topic about the new version that I joined the club of HD 560S owners, but unfortunately, there are no happy owners yet. I don’t like their original response at all, the sound is through the nose, I don’t understand what’s at high, but with the Oratory equalizer this doesn’t go away, removing filters 5 (1750 Hz +2.2 dB) and 9 (7000 +2.5 dB) it becomes a little better, but that’s all anyway, it doesn’t sound right, and yes, in terms of bass, I’m basically satisfied with LS 105 Hz +3 dB Q 0.7 and PK 135 Hz -1.7 dB Q 0.7. But I still can’t tame frequencies > 800 Hz. I tried to build EQ based on measurements: RAA, well, it turned out not so ringing, but now it’s too dull; Rtings, in principle quite good, but too bright, but perhaps better than Oratory.
In general, good people, share your detailed EQs, at the beginning of the topic there seemed to be a picture with EQ from Coin3, it looked good, but I couldn’t repeat the filter on the picture.
I collected graphs with compensation (for the old version, it’s probably better not to think about the differences in the new one for now), they all seem to be from different stands, with different targets, everyone seems to see a rise of 2-3 dB in the range of ~900 Hz at 2 kHz (for Rtings and Realphones it goes up to 3 kHz), everyone sees a 4-6 kHz rise (except that Rtings only have 4.5 kHz), but they measure differently from 4 to 6 dB, and then it seems like there’s confusion, but many have a peak of 8-9 kHz.
If you like try my EQ that I use for the New Version at following link:

Regarding you looking at measurements on all different rigs, I think you're gonna confuse yourself. I think it's best to go off GRAS rig measurements for EQ rather than trying to cobble something together from somehow comparing measurements done on different rigs and indeed they will be different units measured too for each of them which makes it even harder to derive something from it. In the other thread I gave you some suggestions on how you can customise an Oratory EQ using his customisation filters, but figured I'd point you at the EQ I use for the New Version if you want to try that.

EDIT: the New Version doesn't have the peak between 8-9kHz that the Old Version had, seeing as you were mentioning 8-9kHz peak.

EDIT#2: In your first sentence you say you "joined the club of HD 560S owners, but unfortunately, there are no happy owners yet" - I've got to say that's completely misrepresentative and bordering on trolling, but you might just be a bit angry instead. Probably didn't need to mention this as most people would realise that you're being misrepresentative there.
 
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Another_Moon

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If you like try my EQ that I use for the New Version at following link:

Regarding you looking at measurements on all different rigs, I think you're gonna confuse yourself. I think it's best to go off GRAS rig measurements for EQ rather than trying to cobble something together from somehow comparing measurements done on different rigs and indeed they will be different units measured too for each of them which makes it even harder to derive something from it. In the other thread I gave you some suggestions on how you can customise an Oratory EQ using his customisation filters, but figured I'd point you at the EQ I use for the New Version if you want to try that.

EDIT: the New Version doesn't have the peak between 8-9kHz that the Old Version had, seeing as you were mentioning 8-9kHz peak.

EDIT#2: In your first sentence you say you "joined the club of HD 560S owners, but unfortunately, there are no happy owners yet" - I've got to say that's completely misrepresentative and bordering on trolling, but you might just be a bit angry instead. Probably didn't need to mention this as most people would realise that you're being misrepresentative there.
My friend, there is no trolling here, it’s ironic, but I’m upset, I would be glad if I liked the way they sounded, or liked the way the Sundara sounded, which I also didn’t like and sold them. I don’t know why the HD 668B with the Oratory equalizer sounds great, but the HD 560S and Sundara with the Oratory equalizer don’t sound like that, although they seem to have the same target, the same measuring setup, technically good headphones. Maybe I come across defective models? Yes, when I listened to DCA Stealth and I didn’t like them either, I was also upset, but I couldn’t try the equalizer there, and it’s the same story with Zero Red, it was upsetting. So I didn't want to mislead anyone, that's it.
Yes, I’ll try your equalizer tomorrow, thank you, Merry Christmas!
UPD: You might think that I listen to some kind of poorly, strangely recorded music, but to evaluate the sound I use well-recorded pop-rock-rap recordings of the 10s, and not some kind of metal recorded in a garage, or classics where it cannot be objectively I like some kind of increase in the frequency response (maybe 5K?).
 
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Robbo99999

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My friend, there is no trolling here, it’s ironic, but I’m upset, I would be glad if I liked the way they sounded, or liked the way the Sundara sounded, which I also didn’t like and sold them. I don’t know why the HD 668B with the Oratory equalizer sounds great, but the HD 560S and Sundara with the Oratory equalizer don’t sound like that, although they seem to have the same target, the same measuring setup, technically good headphones. Maybe I come across defective models? Yes, when I listened to DCA Stealth and I didn’t like them either, I was also upset, but I couldn’t try the equalizer there, and it’s the same story with Zero Red, it was upsetting. So I didn't want to mislead anyone, that's it.
Yes, I’ll try your equalizer tomorrow, thank you, Merry Christmas!
UPD: You might think that I listen to some kind of poorly, strangely recorded music, but to evaluate the sound I use well-recorded pop-rock-rap recordings of the 10s, and not some kind of metal recorded in a garage, or classics where it cannot be objectively I like some kind of increase in the frequency response (maybe 5K?).
It seems to me that there's something about your anatomy (HRTF) & brain that makes normally good sounding headphones to most people simply just not work for you. This might mean that you need to do lots of EQ experimentation to work out what is your ideal target curve. The approach of using an Oratory EQ and then fine tuning it using his user customisation filters is probably the best way to do this - particularly with something like the Zero Red which should have low unit to unit variation and be quite predictable in your ear canal. If I was you I'd use EQ to fine tune the Zero Red (it's an IEM for the readers who are not familiar), and then you'll be able to apply that EQ to the measurement which will give you what your ideal target curve is. You could then use that customised target curve as the basis to EQ your other headphones, as a starting point (albeit the in ear target is not the same as the over ear target, but might give you some starting points). But it sounds to me like you need to work out your ideal target curve, it seems you're unlucky enough to have some very specific requirements.

EDIT: and re tuning the Zero Red, Oratory has just measured the Zero Red:
 
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Another_Moon

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It seems to me that there's something about your anatomy (HRTF) & brain that makes normally good sounding headphones to most people simply just not work for you. This might mean that you need to do lots of EQ experimentation to work out what is your ideal target curve. The approach of using an Oratory EQ and then fine tuning it using his user customisation filters is probably the best way to do this - particularly with something like the Zero Red which should have low unit to unit variation and be quite predictable in your ear canal. If I was you I'd use EQ to fine tune the Zero Red (it's an IEM for the readers who are not familiar), and then you'll be able to apply that EQ to the measurement which will give you what your ideal target curve is. You could then use that customised target curve as the basis to EQ your other headphones, as a starting point (albeit the in ear target is not the same as the over ear target, but might give you some starting points). But it sounds to me like you need to work out your ideal target curve, it seems you're unlucky enough to have some very specific requirements.

EDIT: and re tuning the Zero Red, Oratory has just measured the Zero Red:
I don’t know about HRTF, my ears seem to be standard, average, although there is one thing that seems different, but it’s not a fact, of course that would be sad.
Yes, it looks like the equalizer will have to be finely adjusted by ear.
Regarding Zero Red, when I still had them, at that moment Oratory published a post about them, and I asked for a pdf with an equalizer, and he gave it to me on USound and Harman IE Targets, this was back in October, this is also the situation didn't fix it, but that doesn't matter anymore, because I sold them and E1DA.
But as for the 8-9k peak, it seems to me that it still exists, I’ll try to measure it, although not with an exact microphone, but it should show something, I have an opinion that I came across a model of a new version, but with the sound of old, like Solderdude's magenta graph.
Well, fortunately these headphones are comfortable and the driver is technically good, low distortion, attenuation, the deepest bass extension of open and semi-open headphones I have ever owned. I hope I can create an equalizer for myself.
 

Robbo99999

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I don’t know about HRTF, my ears seem to be standard, average, although there is one thing that seems different, but it’s not a fact, of course that would be sad.
Yes, it looks like the equalizer will have to be finely adjusted by ear.
Regarding Zero Red, when I still had them, at that moment Oratory published a post about them, and I asked for a pdf with an equalizer, and he gave it to me on USound and Harman IE Targets, this was back in October, this is also the situation didn't fix it, but that doesn't matter anymore, because I sold them and E1DA.
But as for the 8-9k peak, it seems to me that it still exists, I’ll try to measure it, although not with an exact microphone, but it should show something, I have an opinion that I came across a model of a new version, but with the sound of old, like Solderdude's magenta graph.
Well, fortunately these headphones are comfortable and the driver is technically good, low distortion, attenuation, the deepest bass extension of open and semi-open headphones I have ever owned. I hope I can create an equalizer for myself.
Yes, good luck with your endeavour to find your best target curve.
 

Another_Moon

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And so, I started listening to the standard Oratory equalizer, it seems in principle not bad, but something is wrong, I decided to compare what is so magical in the frequency response of the HD 668B, and I found a clear difference, this is a hole at 3-4k, Solderdude has about such a failure is described as “laid back, sweet”, well, I added a filter something like PK 3.3K -4 dB Q3, well, it seems to be what I like, but somehow not quite again, in some way degree too much.
And today I decided to measure them, albeit with a microphone on the laptop screen, but it should have shown the difference between the channels and something else, and I also decided to measure them immediately with the Oratory equalizer (08.2023).
Well, this is the imbalance I got: the 2.6K - 3.9K areas are up to 5 dB more on the right channel (exactly the area that I had a lot of), and on the left channel the 4K - 6.5K areas are up to 3 dB more, the rest seems to be approximately in balance.
I decided to correct this difference with a channel-by-channel equalizer, the second picture is what came out in the end, well, I want to say it sounds better, I tried turning these equalizer bands off and on in A/B format and the option without them sounds crooked in terms of stereo, but with filters It doesn't seem ideal either. And now you don’t need a 3.5K filter, because... I removed this frequency in one channel and now it sounds normal. I also want to say that before I saw the imbalance on the graph, I heard that in a familiar track I heard, let’s say, a clicking sound in only one channel, although before it seemed to be in both.
In general, I expected, of course, better quality from Sennheiser, which asks $200 for plastic headphones, seemingly for sound, because I can get HD 599 with the same chassis for $130.
P.S. The frequency level below 1K and above 7K on the graphs is slightly different, but I think this is not so important, this is due to the huge leakage, different pressure levels and positions.
P.P.S. I took a closer look, in all measurements the area of 7.5-11K in the right channel is 1-2 dB larger, I’ll also try to remove this
P.P.P.S. And the right channel has less bass in all measurements, but it’s not so obvious by ear, but there seems to be something like that
 

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asrUser

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And so, I started listening to the standard Oratory equalizer, it seems in principle not bad, but something is wrong, I decided to compare what is so magical in the frequency response of the HD 668B, and I found a clear difference, this is a hole at 3-4k, Solderdude has about such a failure is described as “laid back, sweet”, well, I added a filter something like PK 3.3K -4 dB Q3, well, it seems to be what I like, but somehow not quite again, in some way degree too much.
And today I decided to measure them, albeit with a microphone on the laptop screen, but it should have shown the difference between the channels and something else, and I also decided to measure them immediately with the Oratory equalizer (08.2023).
Well, this is the imbalance I got: the 2.6K - 3.9K areas are up to 5 dB more on the right channel (exactly the area that I had a lot of), and on the left channel the 4K - 6.5K areas are up to 3 dB more, the rest seems to be approximately in balance.
I decided to correct this difference with a channel-by-channel equalizer, the second picture is what came out in the end, well, I want to say it sounds better, I tried turning these equalizer bands off and on in A/B format and the option without them sounds crooked in terms of stereo, but with filters It doesn't seem ideal either. And now you don’t need a 3.5K filter, because... I removed this frequency in one channel and now it sounds normal. I also want to say that before I saw the imbalance on the graph, I heard that in a familiar track I heard, let’s say, a clicking sound in only one channel, although before it seemed to be in both.
In general, I expected, of course, better quality from Sennheiser, which asks $200 for plastic headphones, seemingly for sound, because I can get HD 599 with the same chassis for $130.
P.S. The frequency level below 1K and above 7K on the graphs is slightly different, but I think this is not so important, this is due to the huge leakage, different pressure levels and positions.
P.P.S. I took a closer look, in all measurements the area of 7.5-11K in the right channel is 1-2 dB larger, I’ll also try to remove this
Just add 3 more filters to the Oratory EQ, seen in this post. No need to reinvent the wheel. That way the new HD560s sounds good to me.
But wait a minute, this new Oratory profile is from 2024 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7amvtfabcizrc12/Sennheiser HD560S.pdf?dl=0. I got one from 2022 and applied Robbo's suggestion. Here I add the 2022 profile
 

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Another_Moon

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Just add 3 more filters to the Oratory EQ, seen in this post. No need to reinvent the wheel. That way the new HD560s sounds good to me.
But wait a minute, this new Oratory profile is from 2024 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7amvtfabcizrc12/Sennheiser HD560S.pdf?dl=0. I got one from 2022 and applied Robbo's suggestion. Here I add the 2022 profile
I’m not reinventing the wheel, here I’m talking about the different response of the right and left channels in my specific example. I have already tried what you suggest and was not satisfied with it.
 

asrUser

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I’m not reinventing the wheel, here I’m talking about the different response of the right and left channels in my specific example. I have already tried what you suggest and was not satisfied with it.
If you got channel imbalance try to return your sample and get another one. Are you sure it's from the headphones and not the cable or Topping DX3?
 

usern

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Micrphone on a laptop screen might not produce the most reliable results. Run multiple (10x+) measurements, average them, check standard deviation. Otherwise good effort.
 

asrUser

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I got a minidsp EARS to check for channel imbalance. Not everbody needs such a device, but if you get many headphones it's worth it.
 

Another_Moon

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Micrphone on a laptop screen might not produce the most reliable results. Run multiple (10x+) measurements, average them, check standard deviation. Otherwise good effort.
Yes, I took several measurements (level, by the way, 81-83 dB SPL), but in principle, I’ll probably now take 10 measurements of each channel completely without an equalizer and average it for accuracy.
 

Another_Moon

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If you got channel imbalance try to return your sample and get another one. Are you sure it's from the headphones and not the cable or Topping DX3?
The cable is factory, it’s unlikely that there’s anything wrong with Topping, although I’ll check it on other headphones, if there’s the same trend (which is unlikely), then it’s possible, but it will be strange. As for returning the headphones, I would do it gladly, but unfortunately I took them on AliExpress (since resellers in my country have a price of $240, and on Ali I got them for $180, but this is, of course, original, new , there is no doubt about it) and therefore I will not be able to return them, only to the secondary market.
 

Another_Moon

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In general, due to the fact that the laptop has a stereo microphone, I measured it a little wrong, but now I have corrected it and we see more accurately, 10 AVG measurements of each channel, orange - left, blue - right. When measuring, I tried to keep the microphone hole in the middle of the cup, approximately where the center of the speaker is. Measurement level - ~92 dB SPL. The most obvious, again, the 4K to 7K region of the left channel is 3-4 dB higher, then it’s not so obvious, but still, 0.2 - 1.2K the right channel is louder by 2 dB, the 1.8K to 4K region of the right channel is quieter 2 dB plus at the 3.8K point there is a dip of 4 dB (which I probably should like), and finally in the range of 7.5K to 11K the right channel is louder by an average of 3 dB. In general, I think the response of the right channel is more preferable, you might also think that the right driver is the same as in the new version, and the left driver is the same as in the old one, but these are guesses, later I will also try to redo my balance equalizer according to these more accurate graphs.
P.S. Although, again, I can’t present my graphs as the complete truth, but remembering that in my right ear the cymbals clicked more strongly, and the fact that by removing the ~ 4.5k and 3.5k areas I became more comfortable, I think there is something in this.
UPD: Could this be the official "Refurbished"? Could this be possible?
 

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Robbo99999

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And so, I started listening to the standard Oratory equalizer, it seems in principle not bad, but something is wrong, I decided to compare what is so magical in the frequency response of the HD 668B, and I found a clear difference, this is a hole at 3-4k, Solderdude has about such a failure is described as “laid back, sweet”, well, I added a filter something like PK 3.3K -4 dB Q3, well, it seems to be what I like, but somehow not quite again, in some way degree too much.
And today I decided to measure them, albeit with a microphone on the laptop screen, but it should have shown the difference between the channels and something else, and I also decided to measure them immediately with the Oratory equalizer (08.2023).
Well, this is the imbalance I got: the 2.6K - 3.9K areas are up to 5 dB more on the right channel (exactly the area that I had a lot of), and on the left channel the 4K - 6.5K areas are up to 3 dB more, the rest seems to be approximately in balance.
I decided to correct this difference with a channel-by-channel equalizer, the second picture is what came out in the end, well, I want to say it sounds better, I tried turning these equalizer bands off and on in A/B format and the option without them sounds crooked in terms of stereo, but with filters It doesn't seem ideal either. And now you don’t need a 3.5K filter, because... I removed this frequency in one channel and now it sounds normal. I also want to say that before I saw the imbalance on the graph, I heard that in a familiar track I heard, let’s say, a clicking sound in only one channel, although before it seemed to be in both.
In general, I expected, of course, better quality from Sennheiser, which asks $200 for plastic headphones, seemingly for sound, because I can get HD 599 with the same chassis for $130.
P.S. The frequency level below 1K and above 7K on the graphs is slightly different, but I think this is not so important, this is due to the huge leakage, different pressure levels and positions.
P.P.S. I took a closer look, in all measurements the area of 7.5-11K in the right channel is 1-2 dB larger, I’ll also try to remove this
P.P.P.S. And the right channel has less bass in all measurements, but it’s not so obvious by ear, but there seems to be something like that
I do have doubts about the precision of measuring headphones using your laptop microphone, so I have to say that, which means I don't think you can have much faith in your channel balance measurements.
In general, due to the fact that the laptop has a stereo microphone, I measured it a little wrong, but now I have corrected it and we see more accurately, 10 AVG measurements of each channel, orange - left, blue - right. When measuring, I tried to keep the microphone hole in the middle of the cup, approximately where the center of the speaker is. Measurement level - ~92 dB SPL. The most obvious, again, the 4K to 7K region of the left channel is 3-4 dB higher, then it’s not so obvious, but still, 0.2 - 1.2K the right channel is louder by 2 dB, the 1.8K to 4K region of the right channel is quieter 2 dB plus at the 3.8K point there is a dip of 4 dB (which I probably should like), and finally in the range of 7.5K to 11K the right channel is louder by an average of 3 dB. In general, I think the response of the right channel is more preferable, you might also think that the right driver is the same as in the new version, and the left driver is the same as in the old one, but these are guesses, later I will also try to redo my balance equalizer according to these more accurate graphs.
P.S. Although, again, I can’t present my graphs as the complete truth, but remembering that in my right ear the cymbals clicked more strongly, and the fact that by removing the ~ 4.5k and 3.5k areas I became more comfortable, I think there is something in this.
UPD: Could this be the official "Refurbished"? Could this be possible?
I still wouldn't have much faith in your measurements. If you do think it has channel imbalance though, my first one did, then send it back for a replacement.
 

Another_Moon

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I do have doubts about the precision of measuring headphones using your laptop microphone, so I have to say that, which means I don't think you can have much faith in your channel balance measurements.

I still wouldn't have much faith in your measurements. If you do think it has channel imbalance though, my first one did, then send it back for a replacement.
I myself am no longer sure of this and do not trust these measurements. Now I’m listening, there seems to be no imbalance, I ran the tone with a generator, turned on the downmix channels to mono mode, it seems not, I don’t know what’s wrong anymore, maybe it’s wrong with me, maybe my ear was off that day, and the “measuring setup” confirmed it ... or was there something else in the equipment, in general, could it be that the stereo effects are more pronounced in these headphones? I need to get some more headphones and quickly switch between them.
 
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