Schitt Sol Turntable

[hollis]

Great point. I ended up buying a used Rega P5 from my local audio store. One of the key deciding factors was to me was the lack of VTA adjustment. A vinyl junkie recommended that as a good thing for my first turntable. For its price point, it absolutely smoked the $800 Project and new Rega stuff. In the long run, I am kinda wishing it had a ground, I have a very slight hum in the right ch than not there on the left. I never noticed it with pop records, but as I move into soundtracks and classical, I think I need more gain. Not sure if the Sol would be an improvement, but they absolutely nailed their pricing. If someone wanted to dive into the deep end, and skip all the beginner stuff. Thats absolutely where I would send them.

I have the Mani as well, and its excellent. Very good with Jon Hopkins level sub-bass and dubstep cuts.

 

[DSJR]

A pal had a Rega 3 and Mani and the hum was objectionable and not dependent where the Mani was placed. If your Rega dealer was amenable, I'd try a Fono which isn't too expensive. if not a Fono, then I'd look for a phono stage with a higher overload margin. I know it's a pain having the arm and some metal deck parts connected to it 'earthed' via one of the signal returns, but usually it's never an issue out in the field.

 

[watchnerd]

Does Rega or Pro-Ject have on-the-fly VTA adjustment on their $800 turntables? Azimuth adjustment? Nope. An eleven inch tonearm to minimize tracking distortion? Nah.

The bigger issue is that you can get a brand new Technics SL-1200 MK7 for $200 more than the Sol that does provide for VTA adjustment, swappable headshells, and much better speed stability.

 

[teched58]

People here really do like to shit on the Schiit, don't they?

The goal of the turntable was to make the absolute best sounding turntable they could at the price point while allowing for a long path of upgradeability when it comes to phono stages and cartridges. Of course it isn't going to be as easy to use as other turntables. It was never meant to be for those new to vinyl, although now they include a cartridge which I personally think is a little silly. Sure, it'd be easier to just buy a Pro-Ject or a Rega, but for those wanting to get the best sound out of records as we can for our money, this product is here for us. Does Rega or Pro-Ject have on-the-fly VTA adjustment on their $800 turntables? Azimuth adjustment? Nope. An eleven inch tonearm to minimize tracking distortion? Nah.

If you don't want to take the time to learn why Schiit has all these adjustments, I don't blame you. It's rewarding, but obviously much more work than buying a $500 turntable and letting that be the end of it. That doesn't make the product garbage though. Now that Schiit has put the Sol back up on their website (it's been up for months) and they've fixed the old issues, it's incredible value for the dollar.

It's amazing how this turntable was the most anticipated and heavily hyped product in all of audiophiledom before it was released, but since its rerelease it has completely dropped off the map. That says to me that the passionate vinyl-heads who where so pumped up for this product have abandoned it. I don't see discussions ANYWHERE. All the threads (this one and two other lengthy and heavily followed Sol threads at other forums) are dead.

This mystifies me. Therefore, a serious and respectful question to Matt Diploma. I notice you're newly registered here and this is your first post, so therefore it's logical to assume you are a supporter of the Sol. So, can you please tell us what you think of it today, with the fixes. My biggest question is, does the belt still fall off/wander up and down or have they fixed this? This is the dealbreaker for many people, I think,

Thank you.

 

[Matt Diploma]

The bigger issue is that you can get a brand new Technics SL-1200 MK7 for $200 more than the Sol that does provide for VTA adjustment, swappable headshells, and much better speed stability.

You make an excellent point. The SL-1200 MK7 is pretty solid for the price, I can't argue with you there. It isn't my cup of tea though. I had one actually before I ended up with my MoFi StudioDeck. The speed stability was perfect, it was pretty fun to use, but the tonearm wasn't the best. Everything just sounded distant. Once I got the MoFi I had the detail of the Technics but with so much more presence. Remember the Sol has on-the-fly VTA adjustment. That allows you to raise and lower the VTA while you're spinning a record to tune the VTA to your ears. Azimuth adjustment is also much better on the Sol. The 11" tonearm once again will really lower the tracking error compared to the MK7. The MK7 has an effective length of about 230mm, while the Sol is roughly 290mm. That makes a difference.

You're correct in saying that the MK7 is an interesting option but at the same time you're paying $200 more for the lack of a cartridge, worse VTA adjustment, worse azimuth adjustment, and a worse tonearm. It just doesn't make any sense. I suppose you do gain the ability to remove cartridges but you know what you could use the spare $200 to buy a second tonearm for the Sol (they're easily swappable) and have one arm for mono, and one for stereo. You may be spending the same amount as the MK7 at that point but you'd have better sound quality and a better future for cartridge upgradeability.

 

[Matt Diploma]

It's amazing how this turntable was the most anticipated and heavily hyped product in all of audiophiledom before it was released, but since its rerelease it has completely dropped off the map. That says to me that the passionate vinyl-heads who where so pumped up for this product have abandoned it. I don't see discussions ANYWHERE. All the threads (this one and two other lengthy and heavily followed Sol threads at other forums) are dead.

This mystifies me. Therefore, a serious and respectful question to Matt Diploma. I notice you're newly registered here and this is your first post, so therefore it's logical to assume you are a supporter of the Sol. So, can you please tell us what you think of it today, with the fixes. My biggest question is, does the belt still fall off/wander up and down or have they fixed this? This is the dealbreaker for many people, I think,

Thank you.

The interest really dropped because Schiit messed it up at initial release. Since then they've changed the turntable. Once Michael Fremer's review is made available (he mentioned it) I'd bet that's going to bring the attention back. The belt issue has been fixed. I've seen people who thought it was still broken only to discover they could raise and lower the platter to solve that issue.

 

[watchnerd]

You're correct in saying that the MK7 is an interesting option but at the same time you're paying $200 more for the lack of a cartridge, worse VTA adjustment, worse azimuth adjustment, and a worse tonearm. It just doesn't make any sense. I suppose you do gain the ability to remove cartridges but you know what you could use the spare $200 to buy a second tonearm for the Sol (they're easily swappable) and have one arm for mono, and one for stereo. You may be spending the same amount as the MK7 at that point but you'd have better sound quality and a better future for cartridge upgradeability.

How is the VTA adjustment worse?

As for azimuth, tonearms that support removable SME-type headshells can support azimuth-adjustable headshells.

 

[Matt Diploma]

How is the VTA adjustment worse?

As for azimuth, tonearms that support removable SME-type headshells can support azimuth-adjustable headshells.

With the Sol, you can raise and lower the base of the tonearm while your record is playing. This allows you to much more easily find the perfect height that pleases your ears. With the Technics, if you tried to raise the tonearm during play it'd cause your tonearm to make an all around the world trip, leaving loads of scratches on your record and possibly a broken stylus. The base of the SL-1200 MK7 actually isn't solid in place, there's a little bit of wobble (if you tamper with it, otherwise it stays, but of course adjusting the VTA is tampering). And of course if you mess with the pivot point on a gimbal tonearm you're going to mess with what's going on at the other end.

As for the azimuth, that sounds like an interesting headshell. I've never heard of them, that's pretty cool stuff.

 

[watchnerd]

With the Sol, you can raise and lower the base of the tonearm while your record is playing. This allows you to much more easily find the perfect height that pleases your ears. With the Technics, if you tried to raise the tonearm during play it'd cause your tonearm to make an all around the world trip, leaving loads of scratches on your record and possibly a broken stylus. The base of the SL-1200 MK7 actually isn't solid in place, there's a little bit of wobble (if you tamper with it, otherwise it stays, but of course adjusting the VTA is tampering). And of course if you mess with the pivot point on a gimbal tonearm you're going to mess with what's going on at the other end.

As for the azimuth, that sounds like an interesting headshell. I've never heard of them, that's pretty cool stuff.

I've had VTA on the fly tonearms in my past, but now think it's not a very important feature.

"Non-moving" VTA is fine, unless you're a nutter who tries to adjust it for every record.

Also, adjusting by ear is a recipe for never-ending tinkering as what sounds "right" will vary according to the mix and the record thickness.

Better to just set VTA according to cartridge maker specs and get on with life.

If you want to EQ the sound...use real EQ or cartridge loading.

 

[Matt Diploma]

I've had VTA on the fly tonearms in my past, but now think it's not a very important feature.

"Non-moving" VTA is fine, unless you're a nutter who tries to adjust it for every record.

Also, adjusting by ear is a recipe for never-ending tinkering as what sounds "right" will vary according to the mix and the record thickness.

Better to just set VTA according to cartridge maker specs and get on with life.

If you want to EQ the sound...use real EQ or cartridge loading.

Well I guess that's just a matter of what you want in a turntable. I'd love on-the-fly VTA personally but if you just want to set it at 92 degrees and never think about it again, that's fair.

 

[anmpr1]

People here really do like to shit on the Schiit, don't they?

That is not a fair reading of the situation--at least from most commenters here on ASR. The company has received kudos for good work when they have demonstrated solid engineering. It's just that the engineering has often taken a back seat to questionable design priorities.

The problem most had with the record player was the initial poor QC. Now, a year later, if they have fixed all that then it is to their credit. In any case, no one was out any money inasmuch as they offered to buy back the original machines.

The device comes across as generally flimsy looking, and rather Mickey Mouse or Rube Goldbergish in design. If it really is, as you say, an 'incredible value' for the dollar, then who can argue with that? On the other hand, some might argue whether it is that. However it is, eight hundred dollars is not much money for a record player and cartridge, these days.

That said, if one is after a simple and rather flimsy looking record player, the two hundred and fifty dollar Project Elemental might just as well fill the bill. Of course it does not come with a five year warranty, like the Full of Schiit Guys offer.

 

[mhardy6647]

FWIW, I still think the Sol is Schiit's version of a very complex practical joke at the expense of the vinylista. Sort of the Schitty Boyz' equivalent of Frank Zappa and the Mothers' fierce 1960s hippie/psychedelia parody We're Only in it For the Money.

The Sol is purpose-built to be hyper-finicky.

 

[Matt Diploma]

That is not a fair reading of the situation--at least from most commenters here on ASR. The company has received kudos for good work when they have demonstrated solid engineering. It's just that the engineering has often taken a back seat to questionable design priorities.

The problem most had with the record player was the initial poor QC. Now, a year later, if they have fixed all that then it is to their credit. In any case, no one was out any money inasmuch as they offered to buy back the original machines.

The device comes across as generally flimsy looking, and rather Mickey Mouse or Rube Goldbergish in design. If it really is, as you say, an 'incredible value' for the dollar, then who can argue with that? On the other hand, some might argue whether it is that. However it is, eight hundred dollars is not much money for a record player and cartridge, these days.

That said, if one is after a simple and rather flimsy looking record player, the two hundred and fifty dollar Project Elemental might just as well fill the bill. Of course it does not come with a five year warranty, like the Full of Schiit Guys offer.

The Sol does look simple, but flimsy? Is it the uni-pivot tonearm that turns you off? I mean that'd be fair I guess, but lots of really great turntables use uni-pivot tonearms. Last I checked almost everything is solid metal except for the tonearm shaft, which is carbon fibre. Once you actually get to using it, the process is the same as any other record player.

As for that Pro-Ject Elemental, I don't think that should even be compared to this turntable. They may have similar looks, but in terms of features and build quality, they're completely different.

 

[teched58]

The device comes across as generally flimsy looking, and rather Mickey Mouse or Rube Goldbergish in design. If it really is, as you say, an 'incredible value' for the dollar, then who can argue with that? On the other hand, some might argue whether it is that. However it is, eight hundred dollars is not much money for a record player and cartridge, these days.

That said, if one is after a simple and rather flimsy looking record player, the two hundred and fifty dollar Project Elemental might just as well fill the bill. Of course it does not come with a five year warranty, like the Full of Schiit Guys offer.

I agree with the flimsy/Rube Goldberg characterization.

I had such high hopes for the Sol. The problem is that it's more like a science project than a polished consumer product. I get that this is probably deliberate in that they elevated tweakability as the key value proposition and that this enabled them to build it to this price point by essentially creating the turntable out of bits and pieces which must be connected together by the user -- some loosely (like the unipivot arm and the drive belt) and some rumbly (like the motor, which tended to walk across the table before they made it heavier (and some users fashioned their own anchors/feet).

In contrast, with the SL-1200 MK7, just can easily unplug it and carry it to another room and set it up again quickly. The Sol is more like an Erector Set/Meccano, where you have to remove all the pieces and then put it back together again. It's ludicrous that you have a motor which is not fixed in place. Now, I get that they couldn't meet the price point if they had a solid base etc..

The fact remains that, while tweakability is a great user feature, the Sol is so tweakable that SCHIIT THEMSELVES COULDN'T PROPERLY SET IT UP, as evinced by the product launch cluster (and the deep drop off in user interest since then, which AFAIK hasn't been revived by the relaunch).

 

[watchnerd]

The Sol does look simple, but flimsy? .

At 9.5 lbs, the Sol is pretty dang low weight.

$850 in Pro-Ject world gets you the X1, which weighs 15.4 lbs.

In that price bracket, the Technics SL 1200 MK 7 is twice as heavy.

In a totally different price bracket, but similarly skeletal / Erector set form factor, my Michell Gyro SE (sans arm) weighs 22 lbs.

 

[Matt Diploma]

I agree with the flimsy/Rube Goldberg characterization.

I had such high hopes for the Sol. The problem is that it's more like a science project than a polished consumer product. I get that this is probably deliberate in that they elevated tweakability as the key value proposition and that this enabled them to build it to this price point by essentially creating the turntable out of bits and pieces which must be connected together by the user -- some loosely (like the unipivot arm and the drive belt) and some rumbly (like the motor, which tended to walk across the table before they made it heavier (and some users fashioned their own anchors/feet).

In contrast, with the SL-1200 MK7, just can easily unplug it and carry it to another room and set it up again quickly. The Sol is more like an Erector Set/Meccano, where you have to remove all the pieces and then put it back together again. It's ludicrous that you have a motor which is not fixed in place. Now, I get that they couldn't meet the price point if they had a solid base etc..

The fact remains that, while tweakability is a great user feature, the Sol is so tweakable that SCHIIT THEMSELVES COULDN'T PROPERLY SET IT UP, as evinced by the product launch cluster (and the deep drop off in user interest since then, which AFAIK hasn't been revived by the relaunch).

Technically having a separated motor allows you to completely isolate the motor from the turntable with whatever method you choose to use. It's definitely inconvenient for travel. But if you've got a motor fixed to a plinth and you can pick up motor vibrations, well you're screwed. Pro-Ject is actually notorious for having their motors rumble through to the sound.

Would moving the Sol not be as easy as two trips? One for the plinth/tonearm/platter assembly, one for the motor.

Once you've got the turntable actually set up, the Sol works almost the exact same as any other turntable. The only real difference being that you need to give the platter a boost to get it up to speed. A lot of people have already gotten into that habit though, as it lengthens the life of your belt.

I see the point you're getting at. If you prefer simplicity, don't buy the Sol. I can definitely agree with that.

 

[watchnerd]

The fact remains that, while tweakability is a great user feature, the Sol is so tweakable that SCHIIT THEMSELVES COULDN'T PROPERLY SET IT UP, as evinced by the product launch cluster (and the deep drop off in user interest since then, which AFAIK hasn't been revived by the relaunch).

I wouldn't rate the Sol particularly high on tweakability if you can't put a different tonearm on it.

 

[BDWoody]

If you prefer simplicity, don't buy the Sol. I can definitely agree with that.

I think if I wanted a tweaker type setup, I'd want a greater potential upside. This looks really cute and all, but as @watchnerd said, the Technics is a real TT with a lot more real engineering behind it, with a greater upside for very little more $$.

Sounds like you enjoy yours, which is the main thing. For the same or less money, I'd take my old Kenwood 880D, but the used TT thing is it's own world.

 

[anmpr1]

The Sol does look simple, but flimsy? Is it the uni-pivot tonearm that turns you off?

I don't have one, so any opinion of it is from pictures. I think I am justified in saying that it doesn't exude the sort of 'heavy metal' or solid construction you see with other spider assemblies or turntables using detached motors. But it doesn't cost thousands of dollars either. It looks like what it costs.

Unipivots are different animals. On the one hand you get (or are supposed to get) low friction from one contact point. On the other hand, you get at least the possibility of torsional or rotational instability during play. The Full of Schiit Guys give you adjustable VTA during play. That is a plus, but mostly if you are using a line contact type of diamond.

I'm surprised with a unipivot design that they don't offer resonance damping (silicon gunk usually) at the pivot (not the best place for arm/cartridge damping, but about as good a place for it as you are going to find it, anymore). Most unipivots I've encountered have that option, since it's not as difficult to design for it (think Audiocraft/Ultracraft, Grace, Formula 4, Keith Monks. etc). That it is not offered is likely a price point consideration.

Actually, people laugh at some of my record players, so don't take anything personally. The thing is to enjoy what you have. If you have one and if you are happy with it then that's good. We need more happiness in the world. With a five year warranty that should offer you some hedge against the spread.

 

[mannye]

I haven’t seen any recent reviews of the RE-tooled table. Can anyone point me to one?
I didn’t shit on the Schitt earlier, in fact I thought they were pretty cool just for admitting that the thing wasn’t ready for prime time on the first go-round.

I’m not going to go back 25 pages but I do seem to remember they were getting shit on for trying to do the right thing.

However, I’m in the market for a new turntable and the short list is the SL-1200G. It is the only one on the list right now because it’s about as turn-key as it gets.

Is the new Schitt have less fiddly?