Schiit Modius Balanced DAC Review

[direstraitsfan98]

d E p T h
A n D
b O d Y

 

[Shazb0t]

There is a noticeable difference, but it's useless arguing that here I suppose. As I said, SINAD for a 1khz tone doesn't correlate to performance for actual music. You can see this for yourself with a good enough ADC; if you record the same music file output from the same DAC twice, the difference between the two will be somewhere roughly close to the SINAD of said DAC. But if you take two different DACs with a similar SINAD and do the same, the difference between the two recordings will be much higher. Of course, in this case it is the same DAC with two different output stages, but as they say, it's all about the implementation.

Uh huh.

 

[A Surfer]

There is a noticeable difference, but it's useless arguing that here I suppose. As I said, SINAD for a 1khz tone doesn't correlate to performance for actual music. You can see this for yourself with a good enough ADC; if you record the same music file output from the same DAC twice, the difference between the two will be somewhere roughly close to the SINAD of said DAC. But if you take two different DACs with a similar SINAD and do the same, the difference between the two recordings will be much higher. Of course, in this case it is the same DAC with two different output stages, but as they say, it's all about the implementation.

You may be right, but you can't claim that, unless you somehow are exempt from the confines of human psychology. Until you can demonstrate that you have been able to hear the difference in multiple trial, level matched, blind listening testing you have no leg to stand on. Using sighted listening tests is absolutely useless. If that is what you're doing, you and your friends you might as well be spitting in the wind, you're wasting your time.

In blind listening testing you would need to have about ten trials per individual and have at least a 90% discrimination rate. That would be evidence. Not trying to be rude, but when you have that, come talk to us. If you are going to talk about sighted listening tests please don't be shocked or offended when people disregard that. That is because people should disregard that supposed evidence.

 

[Degru]

You may be right, but you can't claim that, unless you somehow are exempt from the confines of human psychology. Until you can demonstrate that you have been able to hear the difference in multiple trial, level matched, blind listening testing you have no leg to stand on. Using sighted listening tests is absolutely useless. If that is what you're doing, you and your friends you might as well be spitting in the wind, you're wasting your time.

In blind listening testing you would need to have about ten trials per individual and have at least a 90% discrimination rate. That would be evidence. Not trying to be rude, but when you have that, come talk to us. If you are going to talk about sighted listening tests please don't be shocked or offended when people disregard that. That is because people should disregard that supposed evidence.

Hence why I want to avoid arguing about that here; I was just asking about feasibility of opamp replacement. I've made basic attempts at doing properly level matched tests that were enough to convince me that there is a real difference (and I was even hoping it would be placebo just to make my life easier), but aren't really rigorous enough to use in arguments. I'd need to buy a second amp to do a proper blind test in this specific case and I have no desire to do so. I've done blind tests comparing different dacs and amps before, tho, and have been able to tell difference quite easily in those cases.

 

[A Surfer]

Hence why I want to avoid arguing about that here; I was just asking about feasibility of opamp replacement. I've made basic attempts at doing properly level matched tests that were enough to convince me that there is a real difference (and I was even hoping it would be placebo just to make my life easier), but aren't really rigorous enough to use in arguments. I'd need to buy a second amp to do a proper blind test in this specific case and I have no desire to do so. I've done blind tests comparing different dacs and amps before, tho, and have been able to tell difference quite easily in those cases.

Interesting, how carefully did you level match in your previous blind testing? Even a .5dB difference is detectable. Anyway, not trying to be difficult. Enjoy the music as they say.

 

[Degru]

Interesting, how carefully did you level match in your previous blind testing? Even a .5dB difference is detectable. Anyway, not trying to be difficult. Enjoy the music as they say.

I matched with a multimeter. I would have gotten at most 0.08db difference if the readings were correct. I also confirmed before and after testing to make sure a knob hadn't accidentally been poked. Anyway, much more fun to listen to music the normal way, blind tests are exhausting

 

[Ellie]

There is a noticeable difference, but it's useless arguing that here I suppose. As I said, SINAD for a 1khz tone doesn't correlate to performance for actual music. You can see this for yourself with a good enough ADC; if you record the same music file output from the same DAC twice, the difference between the two will be somewhere roughly close to the SINAD of said DAC. But if you take two different DACs with a similar SINAD and do the same, the difference between the two recordings will be much higher. Of course, in this case it is the same DAC with two different output stages, but as they say, it's all about the implementation.

No, I just mean in terms of how it works. Balanced audio has a single goal: To remove, or at least reduce interference from the signal going through the lines. This includes EM interference from power cables or lines, as well as ground loops that can exist in your building's wiring. That's it. There is no other function of balanced sound. It doesn't 'add dynamics' or anything else the usual audiophile nonsense people come up with for it.

Is it possible for a balanced output to sound better than a single-ended one? Yes, if the device poorly implemented the single-ended output, but correctly implemented the balanced output. The reverse can also be true, single-ended can sound better if the balanced output was not handled correctly. Short of this specific scenario, as well as mitigating interference if there happens to be any, there is NO difference in sound or quality.

I'm speaking about how this works from the perspective of an electrical engineer who actually knows this technology. This is literal, scientific fact that you yourself can research if you want to.

 

[Degru]

No, I just mean in terms of how it works. Balanced audio has a single goal: To remove, or at least reduce interference from the signal going through the lines. This includes EM interference from power cables or lines, as well as ground loops that can exist in your building's wiring. That's it. There is no other function of balanced sound. It doesn't 'add dynamics' or anything else the usual audiophile nonsense people come up with for it.

Is it possible for a balanced output to sound better than a single-ended one? Yes, if the device poorly implemented the single-ended output, but correctly implemented the balanced output. The reverse can also be true, single-ended can sound better if the balanced output was not handled correctly. Short of this specific scenario, as well as mitigating interference if there happens to be any, there is NO difference in sound or quality.

I'm speaking about how this works from the perspective of an electrical engineer who actually knows this technology. This is literal, scientific fact that you yourself can research if you want to.

I know. It's not balanced itself it's the opamp used for the balanced output.

 

[raif71]

No DSD, though, if you care about that. Just PCM. I know it's enough and that PCM is in theory better, but I like playing files in native format... Even though I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between native DSD and DSD to PCM conversion.

I usually connect my DAP to DAC. My DAP has 3 modes of dsd ie D2P, DOP and Native. So if I get the Modius, I can rule out Native which leaves me D2P or DOP, for me to be able to play "dsd" file with the Modius, right? I'm assuming pcm will be sent to the Modius using d2p or dop.

 

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

I just plugged in my Schiit Modius today. I was previously using the Topping E30. Before that, I was using an Auxiliary cable from my laptop. Let me just say that this little thing changed how I felt about my music - it brought it all ALIVE! I am simply in love. I don't care what people say about specs or anything like that, but I will say, when I first heard this, I finally understood what people meant about "soundstage" and "imaging". I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend this product for beginner audiophiles.

 

[Wps998]

I have enjoyed the modius for the last 2.5 months..great dac. I bought it before knowing how well it measured. Sounds great with asgard3. But when i got my zmf verite, i notice the asgard3 running out of puff..had to get to 75% volume at high gain to some bite out of it. I heard the wells milo on the weekend at jkt audioshop cuz it has a big following with zmf pairings in indonesia, i can say im very impressed, the dynamics and slam was through the roof and still very refined and extended, given its obscene power rating, it was running off a questyle cma400 dac duties if i wasnt mistaken..has anyone ran a modius SE to a massive headphone amp like wells milo or similar. Maybe could share some knowledge. I plan to still keep my current stack and add another amp that can help me expand into more headphones that like more power.

 

[Restin]

Made an account to see if this DAC and a setup idea would work.

I have a Presonus Sub8 with Eris 3.5 speakers w/ computer. I dont always like to have my my sub on, its just too loud for some games. Would I be able to have the sub on one output (probably RCA), and the Speakers with XLR to TRS? If i turn the subwoofer off, I'd just have the Eris 3.5's, but I could turn the Sub8 on, and have it working too. Let me know if this would work, or if there would be a better setup.

I already own a modi 3+, and can still upgrade.

 

[Jmudrick]

Made an account to see if this DAC and a setup idea would work.

I have a Presonus Sub8 with Eris 3.5 speakers w/ computer. I dont always like to have my my sub on, its just too loud for some games. Would I be able to have the sub on one output (probably RCA), and the Speakers with XLR to TRS? If i turn the subwoofer off, I'd just have the Eris 3.5's, but I could turn the Sub8 on, and have it working too. Let me know if this would work, or if there would be a better setup.

I already own a modi 3+, and can still upgrade.

Sure. I run XLR to my Crown-RS263 and RCA to one R12 sub, works fine.

 

[higui]

Hi all,
Two quick questions:

1. Does it remember the last selected input when turned off?
2. Does it get any advantage from a linear PSU (I have already a good one)? On the schiit website the mentioned about another internal switcher ...

"Well, I’m gonna get me a fancy-shmantzy linear power supply, what do you think about that?
We think you’re a little strange, because the output of that fancy power supply is going into a switcher, anyway. But if it makes you happy, we’re not going to stop you. Nor will we try to sell you such a power supply."

 

[Veri]

Does it get any advantage from a linear PSU (I have already a good one)? On the schiit website the mentioned about another internal switcher ...

"Well, I’m gonna get me a fancy-shmantzy linear power supply, what do you think about that?
We think you’re a little strange, because the output of that fancy power supply is going into a switcher, anyway. But if it makes you happy, we’re not going to stop you. Nor will we try to sell you such a power supply."

They mean with that FAQ that there's really no point in connecting a linear supply, it doesn't directly feed the dac but is switched and regulated internally.

 

[higui]

Thanks, and does it remember the last selected input after power off?

 

[Jmudrick]

Thanks, and does it remember the last selected input after power off?

I never turn mine off but yes.

 

[Restin]

Thanks Jmudrick, good to know the Modius can use two outputs for sub and speakers.

I installed a Sub8 with a ground pin, and between the computer and sub, it causes a ground loop. Optical works, but just up to 48000kHz on my computer. USB still gets a ground loop. I'm using the Modi 3+, so its not balanced. I'm wondering, any idea if using the Modius' balanced outputs with USB will still have a ground loop, or will it be gone? Not sure if the sub or dac needs replacing, since some sub's have no ground.

 

[Ellie]

Hi all,
Two quick questions:

1. Does it remember the last selected input when turned off?
2. Does it get any advantage from a linear PSU (I have already a good one)? On the schiit website the mentioned about another internal switcher ...

"Well, I’m gonna get me a fancy-shmantzy linear power supply, what do you think about that?
We think you’re a little strange, because the output of that fancy power supply is going into a switcher, anyway. But if it makes you happy, we’re not going to stop you. Nor will we try to sell you such a power supply."

There isn't much of an advantage having one in general unless the place you're listening in has very faulty or old wiring. You could also just get a UPS and achieve the same effect. But in the case of this, since it goes into a switcher, it is doing literally nothing.

 

[Wps998]

I have bought LPU for modius. Made no difference. Wasn'T better or worse. Im pretty sure other dacs can be different. Since it was not not overly expensive lpu either so i didnt feel too bad about it. But selecting good rcas did make a difference for me.