Schiit Modius Balanced DAC Review

[Veri]

Apparently this was written by a 15 year old. I'll give him props for getting published at that age.

well that's something

 

[raindance]

If you own a "well measuring" dac then why bother updating to another model if you cant hear the differences anyway ? It becomes a bit like wanting to have the latest iphone although the old one sends emails just as well.
Just buy the cheapest that measures well and call it a day. No ?

Personally I like tube dacs or ones with a thicker tone. Call it distortion or colored or whatever but i like it. I like a choice of flavours to match amps and different speaker designs.

I fully agree with you that expectation bias can be a major role in evaluating hifi and that is a fascinating subject.

Except the ones with "thicker tone" don't always deliver any such thing. Most tube DACs throw a cathode follower on the output of an op amp. Cathode followers don't generate even harmonics, only odd, and add zero tube warmth. Usually they also lack bass due to coupling capacitors.

I'd go so far as to say that most "thicker sounding" DACs either output more volts (louder) or roll off high treble. But they almost never add the magical even harmonics.

 

[Xenio]

Beside the "listening" part of the review which doesn't seem needed for a DAC, I agree that I'd be happy to see a bit more, like a teardown of the DAC with a little "review" of the build quality inside.

I know that it's done sometimes here, and since good DACs should be all almost the same in terms of sound quality, why not do it everytime to differentiate them ?

 

[Racheski]

Beside the "listening" part of the review which doesn't seem needed for a DAC, I agree that I'd be happy to see a bit more, like a teardown of the DAC with a little "review" of the build quality inside.

I know that it's done sometimes here, and since good DACs should be all almost the same in terms of sound quality, why not do it everytime to differentiate them ?

TIME. Massive backlog of gear for Amir to review, and the ASR mob wants speakers prioritized. With that said, I have occasionally seen members teardown DACs and Amps.

 

[jumos]

Could you post a picture please? Just curious.

I put some downward pressure on the cable to bend the socket into place, so it looks pretty much normal now. Honestly, if the dac cost more than what it did, I would have sent it back for a refund immediately and not even bothered. When I originally got it though the socket on the PCB was almost completely misaligned with the hole in the chassis-- I had to wedge the microusb cable in at about a 30-40 degree angle to get it in. All that being said, I might still pick up that monolith ak4499 if it ever comes out, assuming the ASR reviews are up to par . As some other people have said, I think going with microUSB was an exceptionally poor design choice, it should have been USB-B like most DACs with a barrel plug for power. IMO no volume control however was a plus for me, I prefer to control volume at the amp or in my software, and I just want to know my DAC is putting out a solid 4V. Mind you this is before I knew that some professional amps are designed to take way higher voltage input, but my TEAC AX505 is definitely a home use amp so more than 4Vrms is probably not needed.

 

[Morla]

sold out "everywhere"

 

[BAMCIS]

sold out "everywhere"

Site says about a week wait right now

 

[Morla]

Site says about a week wait right now

should have mentioned: Europe. I know shiit-europe and shiit.co.uk. Any other sources?

 

[PuX]

should have mentioned: Europe. I know shiit-europe and shiit.co.uk. Any other sources?

I ordered from the US store once, can't remember if I ordered direct or via a forwarding service. The shipping price/taxes/customs might be expensive though.

 

[BAMCIS]

I agree with you. If someone wants just the measurements you can download the APx555 report directly from Schiit. Amir's review contains analysis of these measurements: how they compare to other DACs that were reviewed, the quality of engineering, highlighting problems, etc...

I do like the way Amir provides pertinent measurements compared to going to the report on the Schiit site. There you'll spend an hour scrolling thru 75(?) pages what looks like duplicate tests of detailed engineering numbers. I learned the hard way numbers aren't the whole story when I got my Topping D90.

 

[Veri]

I learned the hard way numbers aren't the whole story when I got my Topping D90.

How so...

 

[BAMCIS]

How so...

It lacked bass punch and mid mid bass. I assumed it had to be at least as good as my DACs with the ESS 9038PRO & 9018 so that would make me happy. It should sound better, considering it was Topping's latest and greatest. It didn't even have a headphone section so it seemed dedicated to purpose utilizing more space inside to get the best sound. It was heavy, looked awesome, super well made. But it's the sound that matters and the D90 was the first and only item I have ever returned in 30 years.

I learned right there to not trust the those reviewers since they were either unable to hear it's shortcomings or they are hesitant to say what they really heard for financial reasons. These guys are 'in the business' of reviewing hi end gear, I am just a hobbyist. My system is not the most expensive, I've never had speakers over $4K or amps over $4K. After having the first two Benchmark DACs I think Topping and SMSL are incredible value for SQ and the features, I can't see spending over $800 on a DAC again- unless I get to hear the Okto DAC8 Stereo and it wins me over. Love that it has dual sets of XLR outs instead of having to use RCA outs to my subs, not sure why nobody else does that.

After further reading, it seems I am not alone in my take on the AKM 4499 chip and I am sure it's the reason for the D90's SQ, or sound signature, not anything done by Topping, who I really like. Bryston uses the 4499 in their top flagship DAC and it hasn't taken off but I haven't heard it. Established reviewers who seem more like cheerleaders sometimes based on the brand they are evaluating chose their words and phases very carefully describing the sound of the BDA-3 with caveats galore. That should have been a red flag about the 4499. I spent about 2 weeks with the D90, both straight to my Bryston 4BSST2 and PS Audio M700's, and thru my Schiit Freya S, driving Magnepan 3.6 w/HSU ULS-15's and Tekton Double Impacts (they don't need subs) so bass should have been there in spades as it was with the ESS chips.

 

[BDWoody]

After further reading, it seems I am not alone in my take on the AKM 4499 chip and I am sure it's the reason for the D90's SQ, or sound signature

Is there a single one of those 'takes' that includes anything with a controlled listening process?

Funny how that always seems to be missing... You know... The part that gives it any validity.

 

[A Surfer]

I can't imagine for the life of me that the 4499 would somehow be deficient in converting any frequency. There is no way it could lack anything bass wise, sorry that is just fiction from sighted listening tests and is meaningless at best. If you are going to make wild subjectivist claims here please produce some measurements that demonstrate this frequency range deficiency.

 

[A Surfer]

This type of unsubstantiated talk is great over at places like head-fi where people do not want to see or gather actually evidence. I come here to escape that subjectivist love in.

 

[BAMCIS]

Is there a single one of those 'takes' that includes anything with a controlled listening process?

Funny how that always seems to be missing... You know... The part that gives it any validity.

Not really in the strictest scientific method, but they did have at least one other competitive DAC to compare it to on hand. I don't put much stock in someone's opinion on their first DAC or first good DAC since they really have nothing to base their experience on. I think all sound 'good' these days, certainly better than what people were listening to 8 or 10 years ago. For me it's getting the best sound at or below about $800, which seems to be the sweet spot right now. DACs priced above that just don't justify the extra loot for both SQ or specs.

 

[majingotan]

If strictly speaking about best sound, just get the $9 Apple Dongle when used as a DAC. You don’t even need to go $800 for features since even the Modius or E30 offer the same for 4x less of what you’re looking for. Though if you want all features, there’s the very versatile RME ADI-2 used at your budget price

 

[BAMCIS]

I can't imagine for the life of me that the 4499 would somehow be deficient in converting any frequency. There is no way it could lack anything bass wise, sorry that is just fiction from sighted listening tests and is meaningless at best. If you are going to make wild subjectivist claims here please produce some measurements that demonstrate this frequency range deficiency.

With respect, you are speculating with hubris to actual first hand testimony. I admit I don't know what a 'sighted listening test' is. I'm guessing it's either reading what someone else heard or imagining the sound based on measurements? Neither of those has any value, objective or otherwise. I took a lot of time to make this determination. I admit I bought the D90 based on reviews but I sent it back based on massive critical listening in several configurations. I think people living with bookshelf or other speakers that roll off around 50 hertz probably wouldn't notice a difference with the 4499's bass since those speakers cannot produce the bottom octave. My Magnepan 3.6 really don't produce the bottom octave, I love them but even with subs they can't match the Double Impacts below 200 hertz. This is not a jab at limited range speakers so please do not stand reality on it's head extolling the virtues smaller speakers. If you like your speakers that's all that matters. Listeners of orchestra or jazz wouldn't either. I never said the 4499 is void of bass, it just didn't make what the 9038PRO chips did. In all fairness, the ESS chips could be exaggerating this range and the 4499 might actually be the arbiter? No way to really know without being present when the material was recorded. I can say the bass difference was obvious right away and the rest of the spectrum sounded so good with the D90 I spent a lot of effort moving my system around to try and get the bass areas corrected, it was that good. I can also say no other DAC chip I'm aware of dares suggest much less flaunt anything like AKM's 'Velvet Sound', which you have to admit is a not to subtle way of saying their design is coloring the sound at least to an extent. Sure taking the edge off some bad recordings is good, but you get a marshmallow sound from exceptionally recorded material and that's a trade off I didn't think was worth it. This was not a 'wild' claim, I had several DACs and different amps and speakers to do direct comparisons with and evaluate the D90 with, (not as in background listening either) and it was the same every time. It's not a bad DAC, I just don't think it matches the ESS chips with most rock and synth material. Some vocals and classic guitar music didn't do as well either. I hear some tube pre amps like Schiit's Freya + make up for the slightly lighter bass response by the D90. I can't say I won't try that combo in the future, the overall sound of the D90 really is that good and it was not an easy decision to send it back. In fact, if the volume had not been so insanely fast compared to my other adjustable volume DACs I would probably kept it. I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers so you AKM / D90 fans out there keep your shirts on and enjoy the music.

 

[win]

I think people living with bookshelf or other speakers that roll off around 50 hertz probably wouldn't notice a difference with the 4499's bass since those speakers cannot produce the bottom octave. My 3/6 do not do the bottom octave, I love them but even with subs they can't match the Double Impacts below 200 hertz. This is not a jab at limited range speakers so please do not stand reality on it's head extolling the virtues smaller speakers. If you like your speakers that's all that matters. Listeners of orchestra or jazz wouldn't either. I never said the 4499 is void of bass, it just didn't make what the 9038PRO chips did. In all fairness, the ESS chips could be exaggerating this range and the 4499 might actually be the arbiter. I can say it was obvious right away and the rest of the spectrum sounded so good with the D90 I spent a lot of effort moving my system around to try and get the bass areas corrected, it was that good. I can also say no other DAC chip I'm aware of dares suggest much less flaunt anything like AKM's 'Velvet Sound', which you have to admit is a not to subtle way of saying their design is coloring the sound at least to an extent. Sure taking the edge off some bad recordings is good, but you get a marshmallow sound from exceptionally recorded material and that's a trade off I didn't think was worth it. This was not a 'wild' claim, I had several DACs and different amps and speakers to do direct comparisons with and evaluate the D90 with, (not as in background listening either) and it was the same every time. It's not a bad DAC, I just don't think it matches the ESS chips with most rock and synth material. Some vocals and classic guitar music didn't do as well either. I hear some tube pre amps like Schiit's Freya + make up for the slightly lighter bass response by the D90. I can't say I won't try that combo in the future, the overall sound of the D90 really is that good and it was not an easy decision to send it back. In fact, if the volume had not been so insanely fast compared to my other adjustable volume DACs I would probably kept it. I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers so you AKM / D90 fans out there keep your shirts on and enjoy the music.

nah man

just nah

edit: I do agree with you on the too-fast volume control on the d90. I use an analog preamp so non issue for me.

 

[BAMCIS]

If strictly speaking about best sound, just get the $9 Apple Dongle when used as a DAC. You don’t even need to go $800 for features since even the Modius or E30 offer the same for 4x less of what you’re looking for. Though if you want all features, there’s the very versatile RME ADI-2 used at your budget price

Your position is sound but I have to say I am too much of a lifelong stereo geek to do follow it. There is something cool about the absolute pure signal from volume controlled DACs that I can't resist. I have 2 Modius on other systems and I love them. I guess I i'm just weird for wanting something that at least looks more impressive on my main room. I still can't get my head around the Modius' micro USB power even tho it's clearly getting the job done. How Modius' a 5 volt supply is generating two 4 volt outputs defies logic, unless I'm not seeing it right? In my head expensive power cords are a hard habit to kick, I'm biased in that area.